Official Game Thread: Lakers at Hawks

[NBASupes]

Just now, BrazilianHawk said:

I definitely don't want Trae gone, but coach needs to figure out how to defend while he's on the court. 

 

Trading baskets won't cut it. 

Sort of, yes. 

Ain't no sort of, he got fired like we did Rick Sund. Travis got the can. 

Atlanta has zero interest in trading Trae. Them 60% and 70% attendance days can easily return if Trae is gone. 

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, BrazilianHawk said:

They could fire Schlenk as well while they're at it. I wouldn't  mind it at all.

He basically was fired. He's the former GM at this point. He still is on the payroll but he has zero control over what is going on.

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, terrell said:

Do we need Trae to win? Demonstrably, NO. Do we need Capela to have a chance to win? Almost certainly.

I think he's gone at the end of the year..

Can you please quit your constant bellyaching.   We are playing without our best two defensive players... and you over here bellyaching because we lost because we couldn't stop them inside??

Really???  

[Sothron]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Ain't no sort of, he got fired like we did Rick Sund. Travis got the can. 

Atlanta has zero interest in trading Trae. Them 60% and 70% attendance days can easily return if Trae is gone. 

We will go through at least 3 coaches before this team even considers trading Trae Young. He is the franchise. Seriously. We have the #2 ticket sales per arena size in the entire NBA because of #11 plays for the Hawks. He's literal box office. Ressler will never trade him unless Trae asks to be traded and Trae is not asking for that.

Harden wants to go back to Houston (I know you know this but others need to see this) because he's literally nicknamed King of Houston. He misses that. He wants to  be the franchise guy again. Trae knows he has that NOW and he has ZERO REASON to leave Atlanta. Trae IS the King of Atlanta. He KNOWS THIS PEOPLE. 

They will trade the entire roster and go through as many coaches as possible before they even seriously consider trading him. 

So all this griping about Trae, yeah his defense is bad, but you guys that go out of your way to talk about him need to come to grips with this. Seriously. I'm not getting onto anyone. I'm just being a big brother here. This is how it is and we ALL need to come to some kind of peace about it.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

He's the second most important player on this team and it isn't close. If we trade Clint we got to get a great defensive center back in a trade (looking at offseason).

Gobert is the only defensive center better. We need an excellent offensive center or elite offensive center a lot more than an excellent defensive one like Clint. Okongwu can do most of what Clint does. He can't protect the paint but KAT does, Embiid does, and Ayton does. He's just too small and does not have the defensive instincts like Horford or Draymond. 

Capela is the most important player on this team. This is a legit low lottery team without him. We can lose Trae and not really lose a beat. Lose Murray, not really lose a bet. But we lose Capela, we are in trouble. Shit, Hunter is like that too but that's because we can't guard no talented big wings without him it's mainly who we playing in regards to Hunter but Capela, it don't even matter. He's our most important player and he's the one we need to upgrade the MOST. 

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

He's the second most important player on this team and it isn't close. If we trade Clint we got to get a great defensive center back in a trade (looking at offseason).

Yep, the way I explained it to my wife tonight who was perplexed we looked so bad against what I told her was a bad team:

Not having Clint on the floor means we can lose to anybody, any night.  He sets a floor for us.  Trae in theory is a ceiling raiser for the squad but not with this construction -- JC not being able to make 3s this year is the most damning thing to this offense.  Teams don't respect his outside shot and they don't need to.  He's shooting like 23% from three... combine that with Capela and Murray on the floor and Trae has zero spacing.  We need a major roster overhaul... there's a reason we were trying to get off JC this offseason and now, and I'm convinced it's because of his finger that has ruined his shot.

[Sothron]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Gobert is the only defensive center better. We need an excellent offensive center or elite offensive center a lot more than an excellent defensive one like Clint. Okongwu can do most of what Clint does. He can't protect the paint but KAT does, Embiid does, and Ayton does. He's just too small and does not have the defensive instincts like Horford or Draymond. 

Capela is the most important player on this team. This is a legit low lottery team without him. We can lose Trae and not really lose a beat. Lose Murray, not really lose a bet. But we lose Capela, we are in trouble. Shit, Hunter is like that too but that's because we can't guard no talented big wings without him it's mainly who we playing in regards to Hunter but Capela, it don't even matter. He's our most important player and he's the one we need to upgrade the MOST. 

You know I'd kill to have KAT or Embiid on this roster. I'd give up the team sans Trae to make that happen.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Yep, the way I explained it to my wife tonight who was perplexed we looked so bad against what I told her was a bad team:

Not having Clint on the floor means we can lose to anybody, any night.  He sets a floor for us.  Trae in theory is a ceiling raiser for the squad but not with this construction -- JC not being able to make 3s this year is the most damning thing to this offense.  Teams don't respect his outside shot and they don't need to.  He's shooting like 23% from three... combine that with Capela and Murray on the floor and Trae has zero spacing.  We need a major roster overhaul... there's a reason we were trying to get off JC this offseason and now, and I'm convinced it's because of his finger that has ruined his shot.

I've been saying, Murray trade was a win. He makes us better. We wouldn't be 13th on defense in the NBA without him but you can't have two PGs on the court for extended periods with Trae. It just kills Trae's floor general flow. 

We gotta get an excellent to elite offensive center ASAP. Okongwu can do a lot of the shit you need from a 5 but he's a superior switch defender than he is a paint protector. He's an excellent rim protector but an average paint protector and when you got Trae and defenders like Bogi, you just gonna get cooked. Clint protects not only the paint but he also protects the rim. That's why he's so valuable but Atlanta needs offense a lot more out of that position. Especially high-end offense. 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

there's a reason we were trying to get off JC this offseason and now, and I'm convinced it's because of his finger that has ruined his shot.

I honestly believe JC's shot is broke is because of touches. He used to get 60 touches a game. He would be in the flow of the game. Now he's getting Cam and Huerter treatment and he's just not skilled enough to function with such little flow. It's a skill to do the shit Tony Snell did for us in the ECF RS run where he barely touched the rock but was automatic when wide open. 

[Marvin24Williams]

The only adjustments Nate makes in game

 

[Hawkmoor]

31 minutes ago, Sothron said:

We will go through at least 3 coaches before this team even considers trading Trae Young. He is the franchise. Seriously. We have the #2 ticket sales per arena size in the entire NBA because of #11 plays for the Hawks. He's literal box office. Ressler will never trade him unless Trae asks to be traded and Trae is not asking for that.

10 head coaches.  Corrected that for you. Heck, befores it over, Trae might be the player/coach.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Hawkmoor

[terrell]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Gobert is the only defensive center better. We need an excellent offensive center or elite offensive center a lot more than an excellent defensive one like Clint. Okongwu can do most of what Clint does. He can't protect the paint but KAT does, Embiid does, and Ayton does. He's just too small and does not have the defensive instincts like Horford or Draymond. 

Capela is the most important player on this team. This is a legit low lottery team without him. We can lose Trae and not really lose a beat. Lose Murray, not really lose a bet. But we lose Capela, we are in trouble. Shit, Hunter is like that too but that's because we can't guard no talented big wings without him it's mainly who we playing in regards to Hunter but Capela, it don't even matter. He's our most important player and he's the one we need to upgrade the MOST. 

Thats why I said if hes out for a while, we'll be tanking unintentionally...

 

[JeffS17]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I honestly believe JC's shot is broke is because of touches. He used to get 60 touches a game. He would be in the flow of the game. Now he's getting Cam and Huerter treatment and he's just not skilled enough to function with such little flow. It's a skill to do the shit Tony Snell did for us in the ECF RS run where he barely touched the rock but was automatic when wide open. 

Maybe, that's definitely what I'd be selling to other GMs if I was Landry, but the dropoff is so stark I have to believe it's something else.  He used to be automatic from the corner and he looks completely awful now.  The only other thing I can imagine is Nate and crew don't have him practicing threes in favor of mid rangers or posting up?  Speculation there but I can't imagine it's just touches affecting him this poorly. 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Maybe, that's definitely what I'd be selling to other GMs if I was Landry, but the dropoff is so stark I have to believe it's something else.  He used to be automatic from the corner and he looks completely awful now.  The only other thing I can imagine is Nate and crew don't have him practicing threes in favor of mid rangers or posting up?  Speculation there but I can't imagine it's just touches affecting him this poorly. 

This year: 30.6 https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?dir=A&sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION

Last year: 53.6 https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?Season=2021-22&dir=A&sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION

The year before: 55 https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?Season=2020-21&dir=A&sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION

#2 option year: 67.5 https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?Season=2019-20&dir=A&sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION

He just ain't being used. Hunter getting more touches. He not getting Okongwu treatment but he damn sure getting early Cam Reddish treatment. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by NBASupes

[terrell]

53 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I’m convinced the front office has already made the decision to tank this season and start fresh next season with a new coach and potentially a roster upgrade/change

We did tank and ended up with a 5-11 diva. We also ended up with two lottery picks in the top 10 and came away with 1 injury prone player and a guy who is probably about to be out of the league. And we had one more lottery pick and came away with a foul prone 6’ 8” center.... So we had our chance and we blew it.......

If at first you dont succeed,  try try again I guess..

Edited December 31, 2022 by terrell

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, terrell said:

We did tank and ended up with a 5-11 diva. We also ended up with two lottery picks in the top 10 and came away with 1 injury prone player and a guy who is probably about to be out of the league. And we had one more lottery pick and came away with a foul prone 6’ 8” center.... So we had our chance and we blew it.......

If at first you dont succeed,  try try again I guess..

[terrell]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The league has figured Trae out and has rendered him pretty useless in the fourth quarter. He is not able to carry or lead this team down the stretch when they need him the most. 

Think about the last three losses….. the Pacers best player buried the Hawks in the fourth……. The Nets best player buried the Hawks in the fourth……. Tonight the Lakers best player buried the the Hawks in the fourth. I know that everything is relative, but I can’t remember the last time we saw our best player do this........

[JeffS17]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He just ain't being used. Hunter getting more touches. He not getting Okongwu treatment but he damn sure getting early Cam Reddish treatment. 

This isn't what we're disagreeing on lol we both agree he's shooting like ass and has lower touches.  We disagree on the cause / effect.  I think he's getting lower touches because his shot is fundamentally broken, and you think his shot is off because of lower touches.  Either way, he needs to be traded.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

The league has figured Trae out and has rendered him pretty useless in the fourth quarter. He is not able to carry or lead this team down the stretch when they need him the most. 

Think about the last three losses….. the Pacers best player buried the Hawks in the fourth……. The Nets best player buried the Hawks in the fourth……. Tonight the Lakers best player buried the the Hawks in the fourth. I know that everything is relative, but I can’t remember the last time we saw our best player do this........

Trae is not a true #1 option. He's a 1.5 option. He can be a #1 option but he gotta be able to spam that PnR and no one is allowing that anymore. The only other option is we get a real #1 option like Embiid or we get another 1.5 in KAT which they can play off each other making it hell on defenses where then he can enforce his will with KAT. 

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

The league has figured Trae out and has rendered him pretty useless in the fourth quarter. He is not able to carry or lead this team down the stretch when they need him the most. 

Think about the last three losses….. the Pacers best player buried the Hawks in the fourth……. The Nets best player buried the Hawks in the fourth……. Tonight the Lakers best player buried the the Hawks in the fourth. I know that everything is relative, but I can’t remember the last time we saw our best player do this........

Trae's elite quality is his playmaking.  He's a very good scorer also (elite for a guy his size), but if he doesn't have shooters around him defenses can sell out hard on him.  It's a fit issue.  That '20 roster had shooters all over the court + Capela.  That's ideal for what we've been running.  As others have mentioned, an offensively skilled big + OO is another nice fit with Trae.  We just can't have 2-3 non-spacing guys on the floor with him or he has no room to operate.