Official Game Thread: Nuggets at Hawks

[Spud2nique]

34 minutes ago, kg01 said:

And now watch all NBA fans go into the phone booth, put on the cape to defend Jokic against the hyper-sensitive, rabbit-ear having a** refs.

But, for Trae, it's "well gee maybe he should be more respectful to the refs that are clearly trying to make a singular example out of him while letting everybody else mouth off and get rewarded." 

The refs are startin to piss me off..

{Landry.. Ressler mentioned prior in this regard}

[Spud2nique]

I’m gonna watch the Nuggs Hawks I gotta watch brate’s 40! Love me some hot Bogi! 

[SalvorMallow]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

And now watch all NBA fans go into the phone booth, put on the cape to defend Jokic against the hyper-sensitive, rabbit-ear having a** refs.

But, for Trae, it's "well gee maybe he should be more respectful to the refs that are clearly trying to make a singular example out of him while letting everybody else mouth off and get rewarded." 

@JeffS17 I wish Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, Trae, and Hunter had a modicum of professionalism and respect and then maybe they would *earn* the right to play well officiated basketball from the zebras. 

[deester11]

1 hour ago, SalvorMallow said:

@JeffS17 I wish Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, Trae, and Hunter had a modicum of professionalism and respect and then maybe they would *earn* the right to play well officiated basketball from the zebras. 

Lmao...

[JeffS17]

6 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

@JeffS17 I wish Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, Trae, and Hunter had a modicum of professionalism and respect and then maybe they would *earn* the right to play well officiated basketball from the zebras. 

I understand you think this is a clever "gotcha" but it's really not.  How many times has calling the ref a motherf*cker rewarded the player?  I don't get why people think verbally abusing and disrespecting the ref is an entitlement players have after a bad call.  Surely you guys can see that being a complete ass towards the refs is not conducive to winning.

There are plenty of players in the NBA that have good, positive, relationships with referees.  And it's not because they get favorable calls or the refs never miss calls on them -- it's because they have average or better emotional intelligence and self control.  It's not unreasonable to ask Trae to have some basketball maturity with regard to the refs in his sixth season.

[macdaddy]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't get why people think verbally abusing and disrespecting the ref is an entitlement players have after a bad call. 

This is why: 

10 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I’m gonna watch the Nuggs Hawks I gotta watch brate’s 40! Love me some hot Bogi! 

I knew it.  Spud is really Lauren Jbara.  How's the new gig?

[SalvorMallow]

32 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I understand you think this is a clever "gotcha" but it's really not.  How many times has calling the ref a motherf*cker rewarded the player?  I don't get why people think verbally abusing and disrespecting the ref is an entitlement players have after a bad call.  Surely you guys can see that being a complete ass towards the refs is not conducive to winning.

There are plenty of players in the NBA that have good, positive, relationships with referees.  And it's not because they get favorable calls or the refs never miss calls on them -- it's because they have average or better emotional intelligence and self control.  It's not unreasonable to ask Trae to have some basketball maturity with regard to the refs in his sixth season.

I get it. The refs have delicate sensibilities (especially this season) and can't hang with the language that everyone uses on the court. 

But here's the thing, I don't buy 300 dollar tickets thinking "Omg I can't wait to see how the rookie ref is going to fare today!" I'm there to watch nba stars play basketball. If they're getting thrown out of the game consistently across the league, it means the league is putting a worse product on the floor, and inevitably disappointing the fans. 

I understand there has to be a line somewhere, but that line should be getting in the refs face and barking, pushing the ref and stuff like that. Saying a mild insult in passing after a blatantly missed a call shouldn't be enough to get thrown out. Clapping and yelling "let's go Hawks" when across the court from the red shouldn't e enough to get you thrown out. 

And with all of this talk about professionalism, what about professionalism from the refs? It's OK for them to have personal vendettas with Trae and not call the game evenly because if it? That's insane to me. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, SalvorMallow said:

And with all of this talk about professionalism, what about professionalism from the refs? It's OK for them to have personal vendettas with Trae and not call the game evenly because if it? That's insane to me. 

All this!

Remember this one from back in the day?

 

 

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

I get it. The refs have delicate sensibilities (especially this season) and can't hang with the language that everyone uses on the court. 

But here's the thing, I don't buy 300 dollar tickets thinking "Omg I can't wait to see how the rookie ref is going to fare today!" I'm there to watch nba stars play basketball. If they're getting thrown out of the game consistently across the league, it means the league is putting a worse product on the floor, and inevitably disappointing the fans. 

I understand there has to be a line somewhere, but that line should be getting in the refs face and barking, pushing the ref and stuff like that. Saying a mild insult in passing after a blatantly missed a call shouldn't be enough to get thrown out. Clapping and yelling "let's go Hawks" when across the court from the red shouldn't e enough to get you thrown out. 

You're talking about something entirely different than what I'm talking about.  It really doesn't matter where the line is or should be with regard to talking to refs -- what matters is having an internal locus of control and focusing on things you can change/affect.  So I repeat, Trae barking at the refs, being disrespectful, whining for the full duration of timeouts (and not being there to hear the coaches) is in no way positively contributing to winning, quite the opposite actually.  So it's possible to be upset with the refs and also hold Trae to a higher standard.  If he acted like DJ on the court, not only would he be more focused and not give up transition buckets because he's hanging back complaining, but he'd likely get more favorable calls anyways because refs are humans and not without bias.  So there's really no scenario where barking at them disrespectfully is beneficial, so why do it?  Imagine if everyone on our team acted like Trae does with the officials.  Would you defend the whole team acting that way?

2 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

And with all of this talk about professionalism, what about professionalism from the refs? It's OK for them to have personal vendettas with Trae and not call the game evenly because if it? That's insane to me. 

The only people that think Trae doesn't get calls are Hawks fans.  And other fan bases feel similarly about their star players.  Nuggets fans whine Jokic doesn't get enough fouls, Bucks fans feel like Giannis gets hacked a ton without calls, Lakers fans don't think Lebron gets calls despite getting hacked in the paint, etc.  We're in a nice bubble here on HawkSquawk but it might be good for people to acknowledge Trae is not getting some massive injustice of officiating on the court.  

[AHF]

We all see the calls that are missed on plays where Trae is fouled.  There are plenty of those.  But he is still tied for the third most free throws in the league as of this moment.  So I would say what he is doing is generally working -- much more so than what quiet players like DeAndre Hunter is doing.  Some of the most abusive people are highly rewarded by refs ala the squeaky wheel approach.  Not saying it doesn't help a bit if they have a strong public image (think MJ, Coach K, etc.).

So I'd like Trae to dial it back a bit but purely from the perspective of what most benefits the team I'd rather he keep up what he is doing than he go silent and just accept it when he is fouled and the whistle is swallowed.  So my ideal would be for him to largely keep it up but (a) make sure not to disengage from a live ball and (b) to try to shift towards building a bit more of a rapport with the majority of the refs while still complaining regularly.  I don't use whether a particular ref has it out for him as a standard because Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, and a host of other players who are generally considered to be model professionals have had refs who simply hate them.  That is unavoidable (which is different than saying inevitable).

[JeffS17]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

We all see the calls that are missed on plays where Trae is fouled.  There are plenty of those.  But he is still tied for the third most free throws in the league as of this moment.  So I would say what he is doing is generally working -- much more so than what quiet players like DeAndre Hunter is doing.  Some of the most abusive people are highly rewarded by refs ala the squeaky wheel approach.  Not saying it doesn't help a bit if they have a strong public image (think MJ, Coach K, etc.).

So I'd like Trae to dial it back a bit but purely from the perspective of what most benefits the team I'd rather he keep up what he is doing than he go silent and just accept it when he is fouled and the whistle is swallowed.  So my ideal would be for him to largely keep it up but (a) make sure not to disengage from a live ball and (b) to try to shift towards building a bit more of a rapport with the majority of the refs while still complaining regularly.  I don't use whether a particular ref has it out for him as a standard because Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, and a host of other players who are generally considered to be model professionals have had refs who simply hate them.  That is unavoidable (which is different than saying inevitable).

I think you're causally linking two things (Trae complaining and getting lots of whistles) that aren't causally related.  Highly marketed, highly paid, star-level players tend to get more calls than bench rotation guys and others, regardless of how much they're whining to the refs.  Leave working the refs to the coaching staff. 

[macdaddy]

Why not just make it so only the crew chief can call technicals for arguing with the refs.  They're all on the floor.  they can see and hear everything being said.  Then hopefully we don't have such a wide range of what is tolerated and what isn't. 

And we dont' have to sit through the crew chief acting like they agreed with the call. 

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think you're causally linking two things (Trae complaining and getting lots of whistles) that aren't causally related.  Highly marketed, highly paid, star-level players tend to get more calls than bench rotation guys and others, regardless of how much they're whining to the refs.  Leave working the refs to the coaching staff. 

I am because refs consistently reward coaches and players that are very vocal about their displeasure.  That is why Phil Jackson used to strategically and extremely publicly call things out about the refs.  That is why Coach K loudly cussed up a blue streak screaming at the refs.  The vast majority of the guys getting tons of calls complain a lot about the refs.  Why would star players and coaches do that unless it worked?  They aren't all just stupid and emotional.  LeBron, for example, is someone who is notorious for flopping and complaining to the refs when he doesn't get calls and the primary reason he does all that is to get more calls.

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

This is why: 

I knew it.  Spud is really Lauren Jbara.  How's the new gig?

good the big guy and I had a dance over the summer, lemme tell ya something he don’t only pass he goes hard to the hoooooooo.. I digress  

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I am because refs consistently reward coaches and players that are very vocal about their displeasure.  That is why Phil Jackson used to strategically and extremely publicly call things out about the refs.  That is why Coach K loudly cussed up a blue streak screaming at the refs.  The vast majority of the guys getting tons of calls complain a lot about the refs.  Why would star players and coaches do that unless it worked?  They aren't all just stupid and emotional.  LeBron, for example, is someone who is notorious for flopping and complaining to the refs when he doesn't get calls and the primary reason he does all that is to get more calls.

We just view things through a different lens and do not agree.  I see a lot of confirmation and selection bias in your comment here.  Also, talking to refs, even passionately, is not the same as being a huge dickhead to the ref.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

We just view things through a different lens and do not agree.  I see a lot of confirmation and selection bias in your comment here.  Also, talking to refs, even passionately, is not the same as being a huge dickhead to the ref.

Which is why I said my preference would be for him to work towards more of a rapport.  But if you don't think Coach K was an absolute ****head to refs on a regular basis you weren't watching.   (He was to his players too.)  That can work.  Refs don't like negative attention and in general react to it.

I don't remember many times that Coach K was apologizing for being an ***hole other than when he was caught on camera doing it to a teenager like with Terrence Jones.

I use him because he was near universally respected and upheld as being the very best of the sport.  You can still call the refs out and dump on them (Jordan sure didn't hesitate) but I agree that the best way isn't to do only that or to do that all the time.  You are best to mix it up with some bonding and lower intensity pleading.  But nothing is worse for a player than just taking the bad calls silently because the refs just keep doing it to you then so I don't think Trae's approach is the worst one out there.

[Spud2nique]

I still gotta watch this and for nothing else give my gum ball to somebody  

I skipped a game this is unspud like.

-Lauren

[JayBirdHawk]

20 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I still gotta watch this and for nothing else give my gum ball to somebody  

I skipped a game this is unspud like.

-Lauren

Mat(t)hews 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Mat(t)hews 

I this point I’d rather watch Mathews against Solomon Hill one on one.. and Matthews too what the heck  

 @HawksNWaffles prolly has an eerie alien pics of this as we speak  

[Atlantaholic]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:58 PM, AHF said:

I am because refs consistently reward coaches and players that are very vocal about their displeasure.  That is why Phil Jackson used to strategically and extremely publicly call things out about the refs.  That is why Coach K loudly cussed up a blue streak screaming at the refs.  The vast majority of the guys getting tons of calls complain a lot about the refs.  Why would star players and coaches do that unless it worked?  They aren't all just stupid and emotional.  LeBron, for example, is someone who is notorious for flopping and complaining to the refs when he doesn't get calls and the primary reason he does all that is to get more calls.

Yup, it puts preassure on the refs. Despite what some may think refs don't want to be in the limelight outside of maybe a few exceptions. Majority of refs especially the younger ones, the last thing they want is to draw attention.