Trae Young - The Man, The Viper, and The Prosecution aka The MVP aka Ice Trae

[Final_quest]

Clutch 

[kg01]

39 minutes ago, Packfill said:

Trae’s counting stats were great in the playoffs this year but his efficiency was not. It doesn’t matter though if you win. 
 

There have been some really incredible statistical performances in this year’s playoffs. 

I dont disagree with what you're saying but I think this way of thinking is wrong.  Not a shot at you because the whole basketball world probably agrees with you.  I just hate the way "analytics" makes people think nowadays.

Players can't worry about analytics while playing.  They have to do what they have to do to try and win.  There are times when a  "bad/inefficient" shot is the only shot available in a possession.  There are times when the other 4 dudes on the floor got the deer/headlights look.  We saw one time, in particular, where we literally didn't have a play ready for the situation we were in.  No one knows how many other times that was the case as we were running offense(sic).  But all that gets recorded, from an analytic standpoint, is that the player made an "inefficient" result essentially.

There's no way for "analytics" to fully capture what's going on yet the basketball world has chosen to anoint these made up numbers to tell them what to think.

I'm not saying they're useless, I'm saying they're a tool.  At this point, the tool has become like AI that's taken over the world.

(not)Sorry for the rant.

[macdaddy]

On 4/11/2023 at 10:34 AM, shakes said:

I'm gonna start referring to you two as KG2Spud since you're essentially Siamese twins around here.

Also dude that's not the preferred nomenclature.  Conjoined twins please.

And that's not the issue!

[Packfill]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I dont disagree with what you're saying but I think this way of thinking is wrong.  Not a shot at you because the whole basketball world probably agrees with you.  I just hate the way "analytics" makes people think nowadays.

Players can't worry about analytics while playing.  They have to do what they have to do to try and win.  There are times when a  "bad/inefficient" shot is the only shot available in a possession.  There are times when the other 4 dudes on the floor got the deer/headlights look.  We saw one time, in particular, where we literally didn't have a play ready for the situation we were in.  No one knows how many other times that was the case as we were running offense(sic).  But all that gets recorded, from an analytic standpoint, is that the player made an "inefficient" result essentially.

There's no way for "analytics" to fully capture what's going on yet the basketball world has chosen to anoint these made up numbers to tell them what to think.

I'm not saying they're useless, I'm saying they're a tool.  At this point, the tool has become like AI that's taken over the world.

(not)Sorry for the rant.

I generally agree with your sentiment.  Trae needs to take the shots because the team has not evidenced an ability to win consistently without him being the guy - and for him part of being the guy is the gravity that volume creates.

To me Trae's inefficiency and ability to win in the playoffs is a product of the teams roster construction (combination of shot-creation, spacing and defense) and how other teams play defense against the Hawks and Trae.  

Teams with strong defenses seem willing on most nights to trade shots with the Hawks with the idea being they will out efficiency the Hawks (in part because the Hawks defense is not the effective).  They also dare anyone other than Trae to beat them.  That strategy, as we have seen, does not work when the Hawks are dropping shots but in a 7 game series teams are expecting this to work more often then not.

The Hawks need to solve those issues if they want to advance in the playoffs.  

[REHawksFan]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

I dont disagree with what you're saying but I think this way of thinking is wrong.  Not a shot at you because the whole basketball world probably agrees with you.  I just hate the way "analytics" makes people think nowadays.

Players can't worry about analytics while playing.  They have to do what they have to do to try and win.  There are times when a  "bad/inefficient" shot is the only shot available in a possession.  There are times when the other 4 dudes on the floor got the deer/headlights look.  We saw one time, in particular, where we literally didn't have a play ready for the situation we were in.  No one knows how many other times that was the case as we were running offense(sic).  But all that gets recorded, from an analytic standpoint, is that the player made an "inefficient" result essentially.

There's no way for "analytics" to fully capture what's going on yet the basketball world has chosen to anoint these made up numbers to tell them what to think.

I'm not saying they're useless, I'm saying they're a tool.  At this point, the tool has become like AI that's taken over the world.

(not)Sorry for the rant.

Game A:  11-20 (4-7) for 30 pts on 20 shots  (55% FG / 57% 3pt)

Game B:  14-33 (5-13) for 38 pts on 33 shots (42% FG / 39% 3pt)

Both from Trae.  In the playoffs. Game A they lost. Game B they won.  Game B is the better game.  Dems just the fax.

[macdaddy]

We've seen countless examples of the fact that when Trae is the focal point of the offense and the main distributor we can do great things.  That one Miami series they just dared everyone else to beat them and no one could do it.  We overcorrected though.  We don't need 2 point guards.  You don't need 2 point guards when you have the best one in the league already.  You just need guys who can shoot or even better pass, dribble, shoot so you can't double and triple Trae. 

[REHawksFan]

16 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We've seen countless examples of the fact that when Trae is the focal point of the offense and the main distributor we can do great things.  That one Miami series they just dared everyone else to beat them and no one could do it.  We overcorrected though.  We don't need 2 point guards.  You don't need 2 point guards when you have the best one in the league already.  You just need guys who can shoot or even better pass, dribble, shoot so you can't double and triple Trae. 

Trae plus shooters will give you all the offense you could ever need to win a game.  The issue is finding the shooters that also play defense at a level that can make up for Trae's deficiencies on that end.  I heard Glen Willis talk about the number 1 need for this team - if they do nothing else this offseason - is finding a POA defender for the backcourt.  I'm starting to agree with that.  Maybe they can try to trade Clint for that guy and live with the shooters they have?  

Bogi: 40.6% on 6.7 att per game

Bey: 40.0% on 5.0 att per game

AJ: 39.0% on 2.8 att per game

Dre: 35.0% on 4.3 att per game

DJM: 34.5% on 3.1 att per game

JC:  29.2% on 3.4 att per game (but last 3 seasons he was 38.8% on 3.4 att per game

 

Those numbers aren't horrible and are plenty good enough to build an effective offense.  They just have to be willing to shoot when open and be confident to make their shots.  And doing so should help Trae get more open shots as well which will hopefully get him back up to something respectable.  

This year:  33.5% on 6.3 att per game

Prev 3 years: 36.4% on 7.9 att per game

 

They may not lead the NBA in 3pt shooting but if they have 7 rotation players that can shoot between 35% -40% on decent volume, they will be fine offensively.  

 

They just need to address the POA defense.  That HAS to be better than this year.  

Edited May 10, 2023 by REHawksFan

[macdaddy]

15 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Trae plus shooters will give you all the offense you could ever need to win a game.  The issue is finding the shooters that also play defense at a level that can make up for Trae's deficiencies on that end.  I heard Glen Willis talk about the number 1 need for this team - if they do nothing else this offseason - is finding a POA defender for the backcourt.  I'm starting to agree with that.  Maybe they can try to trade Clint for that guy and live with the shooters they have?  

Bogi: 40.6% on 6.7 att per game

Bey: 40.0% on 5.0 att per game

AJ: 39.0% on 2.8 att per game

Dre: 35.0% on 4.3 att per game

DJM: 34.5% on 3.1 att per game

JC:  29.2% on 3.4 att per game (but last 3 seasons he was 38.8% on 3.4 att per game

 

Those numbers aren't horrible and are plenty good enough to build an effective offense.  They just have to be willing to shoot when open and be confident to make their shots.  And doing so should help Trae get more open shots as well which will hopefully get him back up to something respectable.  

This year:  33.5% on 6.3 att per game

Prev 3 years: 36.4% on 7.9 att per game

 

They may not lead the NBA in 3pt shooting but if they have 7 rotation players that can shoot between 35% -40% on decent volume, they will be fine offensively.  

 

They just need to address the POA defense.  That HAS to be better than this year.  

Agree and as you pointed out on that Hawks list there is only one plus defender there. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Oh Boy!

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Incredible!!! 

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Incredible!!! 

 

 

Saw this too 

[JayBirdHawk]

Ray Young will be on local radio coming up shortly...

https://www.audacy.com/stations/929thegame

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ray Young will be on local radio coming up shortly...

https://www.audacy.com/stations/929thegame

Link here:

 

 

https://omny.fm/shows/dukes-bell/ray-young-joins-the-show

[RedDawg#8]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Link here:

 

 

https://omny.fm/shows/dukes-bell/ray-young-joins-the-show

Great listen.

Ray is a good dude, great father.

[givemesome1ce1]

I really want an honest explanation for this…why is Trae young hated so much by the nba media? Like obviously I had a feeling he wouldn’t make all nba this year but they made all kinds of exceptions last year for him to make 3rd team…it’s so weird. The media has had this hate for him for years. Can anyone explain this? Like he’s the only player who’s actively hated like this

[kg01]

1 hour ago, givemesome1ce1 said:

I really want an honest explanation for this…why is Trae young hated so much by the nba media? Like obviously I had a feeling he wouldn’t make all nba this year but they made all kinds of exceptions last year for him to make 3rd team…it’s so weird. The media has had this hate for him for years. Can anyone explain this? Like he’s the only player who’s actively hated like this

Some predicted he'd bust, can't be man/woman enough to admit defeat so they take it out on him by nitpicking him.

Some probably want(ed) access that wasn't granted, seek revenge passive aggressively. 

I think those are the big 2. 

[Diesel]

I believe in the predictive bust theory.   Trae is the living embodiment of their wrongness. 

Everytime he goes off, it makes them look like they don't know what they hell they were talking about. 

 

[Final_quest]

The Trae hate is complex.  It’s his boldness with nutmegs, logo shots, and some of his passes.  I think it’s partially tied to Luka.  They see his stats and just assume he’s a no good chucker.  
At this point he’s labeled as overrated so much, that he’s actually criminally underrated.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

The Trae hate is complex.  It’s his boldness with nutmegs, logo shots, and some of his passes.  I think it’s partially tied to Luka.  They see his stats and just assume he’s a no good chucker.  
At this point he’s labeled as overrated so much, that he’s actually criminally underrated.

To the point where half the folks here .. Hawks fans ... wanna see him gone.  They basically have a faberge egg but wanna make an omelet out of it.  Dumb.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

To the point where half the folks here .. Hawks fans ... wanna see him gone.  They basically have a faberge egg but wanna make an omelet out of it.  Dumb.

Trae Hate is real.  Last year, they gritted their teeth and made him 3rd team All NBA.   After a Historic Season. 

This is last year's vote...

Name	Publication	Notes
Arnovitz, Kevin	ESPN	Voted Fred VanVleet Third Team
Chinellato, Davide	La Gazzetta dello Sport	Voted Jimmy Butler Third Team Guard
Edwards III, James	The Athletic	Voted Jayson Tatum First Team Guard
Goodwill, Vince	Yahoo! Sports	Voted Jayson Tatum First Team Guard & Jimmy Butler Third Team Guard
Miyaji, Yoko	Sports Graphic Number	Voted Jimmy Butler Third Team Guard
Pasch, Dave	ESPN	Voted Jrue Holiday Third Team
Reverchon, Remi	BeIN Sport (France)	Voted DeMar DeRozan Third Team Guard
Reynolds Tim	The Associated Press	Voted Donovan Mitchell Third Team
Rose, Jalen	ESPN	Voted Kyrie Irving Third Team
Schutz, Guillermo	Televisa (TUDN)	Voted Jimmy Butler Third Team Guard
Sohi, Seerat	The Ringer	Voted Donovan Mitchell Third Team
Stavrou, Harris	Sport24	Voted DeMar DeRozan Third Team Guard

 

Jalen Rose said he was mezmerised by Kyrie Irving's game...  But Last year, Trae got NO First team votes and only 11 second team votes.   That's after a 28/10 season putting up 48% from the field and decent from 3.   

The Hate is real.