Ask Supes

[JTB]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Really?  Even if it is your calling card?  Was he on Murray too?  Is Murray an MVP candidate also?  Why did the Lakers shut Murray down?

Yeah watching PG this past playoffs made me think he’s no longer capable of defending 1s and smaller 2s...they are too quick for him. I think he is still a two way player no doubt but the positions he should be mainly guarding is 3s and 4s

 

Murray should have been Beverlys matchup but they kept trying pg and Leonard on him ...soon as LAC started moving the ball, Murray and Harris looked like a speed problem for the Clippers in my opinion and they just couldn’t keep up.

[JTB]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I'm not a huge PandemicP fan but he was, at points, in the mvp discussion the past two years so he's not trash. 

His playoff struggles are real tho.  And real funny.  I mean, how often do you see guys clank corner 3's off the side of the backboard?  Haha.  Dude morphed into Phyllis George in the playoffs. 

He'd definitely elevate us in the regular season, which has value.  Get our keepers some playoff burn.

To me this is why we do the deal shall it comes so in a way guarantee a playoff birth and our young core can start to get their feet wet on how hard and tough it is to win on the big playoff stage.
 

even if he leaves at least next off season we would be looked at as a young playoff team. I think that’s beneficial for such a strong free agency in 2021. Right now 2021 doesn’t excite me because I can’t see schlenk or this front office persuading any good to top free agents here

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

LAC has NOT offered Atlanta anything. They have offered this to MIN. MIN just doesn't want to do it unless PG13 opts in which he's not. They are using this to sell 1st overall to shit teams like us as an option as they already asked for a Dallas/Atlanta package and every team declined their offer. They want to move down but NO one wants to move up. LAC also wants to land either Al Horford or CP3. Al could be had for nothing and maybe even you can get an asset or two out of them although I've heard they don't want to move #21 to move Al. OKC wants something for CP3 but they made a promise to CP3, they will trade him to a great situations and great situations(contenders) don't have decent assets to trade. Usually, it's the bad situations(lottery teams) that do. 

This is the most critical point.  After what Minny went through with Butler, they don't want PG. So they are trying to reroute PG to a team that can compensate them.

The question is...what risk is Atlanta willing to take.

[marco102]

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This is the most critical point.  After what Minny went through with Butler, they don't want PG. So they are trying to reroute PG to a team that can compensate them.

The question is...what risk is Atlanta willing to take.

So I want to make sure I'm understanding the trade.  

Atlanta gets PG13.

Minnesota gets the number six pick and a 2022 1st pick.

LAC get 1st overall pick to help facilitate trade for a CP3? 

@NBASupes is that correct?

I'd do this trade all day.  I expect the Hawks to be a playoff team without PG13 in 2022.  It's worth the risk.

Edited October 17, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

29 minutes ago, marco102 said:

So I want to make sure I'm understanding the trade.  

Atlanta gets PG13.

Minnesota gets the number six pick and a 2022 1st pick.

LAC get 1st overall pick to help facilitate trade for a CP3? 

@NBASupes is that correct?

I'd do this trade all day.  I expect the Hawks to be a playoff team without PG13 in 2022.  It's worth the risk.

He told me, they want the same thing they have been wanting. A pick swap and a 2021 1st round pick. Obviously, unless the Hawks two 1st round picks in next year's draft, they can only give the pick swap and a 2022 top 5 protected 1st round pick. Considering PG might not be on the roster in 2022, that's an even better deal for MIN than originally proposed. 

CP3 or Al Horford, obviously the cost for Horford is less of that for CP3.

I wouldn't be too sure the Hawks will be in the 2022 playoffs. Injuries can happen for example

Edited October 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[RedDawg#8]

The PG deal is more beneficial  than what happens on the court.

It would be a move that shows outsiders we are serious about building a contender. Whether or not it actually makes a difference in the win column is extra icing.

Thats because regardless of all these cons we have come up with by discussing his locker room persona and declining play, all of our eyebrows went up when we first came across the rumor.

Thats the same reaction we would get from players, fans, media, etc... Everyone would see that move as the Hawks seriously trying to build something in Atlanta.

You can only be the team that drafts talent for so long before you have to start bringing in top talent. Adding PG signals to the 2021 FA class that Atlanta is serious about competing and spending money on talent, versus being the frugal mid size market that sells hopes and dreams.

It would not be the move that puts us over the top, but it would be a chess move to attract players by making us a more appealing destination. How can we hope to attract Giannis if we wont even sign a Paul George? We know we want to add defense on the wings, shooting, etc.... well what player at #6 is going to help us more than PG could?(and I really dare one of yal to say somebody from this class)

His contract doesnt hurt us long term either.

A top 4 of Trae, PG, JC and Clint is quite nice on paper.

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

A top 4 of Trae, PG, JC and Clint is quite nice on paper.

Y'all love paper!  That's all I have to say

[thecampster]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Getting killed by MVP types isn't a red herring but what is, is he hasn't been Playoff P since Indy. He just hasn't meshed well in the western conference playoffs. Both times, he looked bad. 

Seriously...I mean we all remember a few star NBA players took exception to Trae clowning them with ease. One Trae paid for with a body check. This new crop of players the last 3 or 4 years have a different level of handles and attitude.

[Sothron]

PG13 would help us get to the playoffs and he wouldn't have the pressure to be the guy in the playoffs. We all know Trae is our superstar and PG13 is the complimentary guy to that. 

If we all had to give us is #6 in a frankly weak draft overall to get him I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all love paper!  That's all I have to say

You hate everything.  And we all know that's not all you'll have to say, bro.

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all love paper!  That's all I have to say

Really? Say more, please.

Everything is speculation and projections at this point. We (including you) dont know how any move will play out until games are played.

So what is your gripe? Do you hate the idea, our current core, or do you just really hate paper?

We already know you hate LP so no need to re-visit that.

[terrell]

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Let's be clear: Contenders want him. It's when these teams get him, they see red flags. 

This is what I continue to ask. That said, Jimmy had some of these things put on him. Sometimes, you just gotta go to the right situation. My question is, is the Hawks the right situation? PG13 been made it clear he wants to be on a contender and get paid. His two biggest things are getting paid and contending. I am not sure Atlanta is at that stage.. I am fine with Kevin/Hunter/Cam. They will be 5th options and backups. That's easily in their alley. Capela, easily fine with. Trae and JC, Idk. JC don't know what he is to a winning team yet. Trae hasn't played winning Basketball yet in his career. I just don't know. 

The biggest reason the Hawks would want him in my eyes is he's one of the best wings in the NBA. Hard worker. Gives us a legit wing who can help win games. He fits our system of the past and what we want to do, he's an excellent shooter, two-way player, and the obvious, Trae Young creates a ton of open looks, most in the NBA and PG really shines in the regular season at it which none of our wings even consistently did last year. We literally had the least productive wings in the NBA last year based on the entire season. Yes, they showed a lot of talent but productive, they weren't. Also, how much does Atlanta value the 6th overall pick in this draft and their 2022 1st rounder is the real question as well if they do a deal like this? 

Like I said, it's all about PG13. Does he want to embrace this situation? If he does, like Jay says, he can win here. The talent is here, the star power is here with Young. We have a lot of money. We got options. If we get to the ECF, we might could convince Giannis to come to Atlanta but this can go south. He was at his best in Indy when they had an all around squad in the early 2010s. When it was the capo, Indy struggled. As the 2B, OKC never got out of the 1st round. As the 2B in LA, he was bad in the playoffs, they won in spite of him and KP's injuries helped them get out of the 1st round. 

The playoffs are hard, he was settling for tough shots against Portland (OKC), Dallas and Denver (LAC) and none of them had good perimeter defense. Maybe having an offensive catalyst who can shoot like Trae can help him tremendous. His 2nd year with Westbrook, he was 3rd in the MVP race. 

I am skeptical because the price tag is high and the risk is just as high. 

 

LAC has NOT offered Atlanta anything. They have offered this to MIN. MIN just doesn't want to do it unless PG13 opts in which he's not. They are using this to sell 1st overall to shit teams like us as an option as they already asked for a Dallas/Atlanta package and every team declined their offer. They want to move down but NO one wants to move up. LAC also wants to land either Al Horford or CP3. Al could be had for nothing and maybe even you can get an asset or two out of them although I've heard they don't want to move #21 to move Al. OKC wants something for CP3 but they made a promise to CP3, they will trade him to a great situations and great situations(contenders) don't have decent assets to trade. Usually, it's the bad situations(lottery teams) that do. 

"Trae Young and John Collins might not be ready for that"

But Herro, Bam, and Duncan Robinson were?

Miami added Butler, Dragic, Crowder, to their young core and made the Finals..

Pretty sure we'll add a vet pg, and another wing to ours...

Not saying PG can do what Jimmy did, but its possible right? lol

Heat had a proven coach though..

 

 

 

 

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

PG13 would help us get to the playoffs and he wouldn't have the pressure to be the guy in the playoffs. We all know Trae is our superstar and PG13 is the complimentary guy to that. 

If we all had to give us is #6 in a frankly weak draft overall to get him I'd do it in a heartbeat.

We have money to spend and are going to spend it on someone. All I need is for someone to say we're going to get player "Z" who is better. I'd settle for players x, y, and Z who are cumulatively better.

[thecampster]

I'm sitting here trying to see the down side.

 

So we run out Trae, Cam, PG, Collins, Capela and have a bench with Teague, Huerter, Hunter, Skal, Dedmon....am I missing something?  That's pretty deep compared to where we were in January. Basically a 1 -2 year rental. If he doesn't work out, we sell him to a rebuilding team after the season who wants to clear cap room.

Edited October 17, 2020 by thecampster

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I'm sitting here trying to see the down side.

 

So we run out Trae, Cam, PG, Collins, Capela and have a bench with Teague, Huerter, Hunter, Skal, Dedmon....am I missing something?  That's pretty deep compared to where we were in January.

There is no downside to that. We have two excellent defensive starters in Capela and PG13, a good one that is getting better in Cam and an average one in Collins and one admittedly terrible one in Trae. Our bench is loaded for war with Teague, Red Velvet, Hunter, Skal and Dedmon. That's a legit 10 man rotation with roles easily understood and embraced. 

That team could easily contend with anyone in the East and dare I say the West as well.

[thecampster]

44 minutes ago, Sothron said:

There is no downside to that. We have two excellent defensive starters in Capela and PG13, a good one that is getting better in Cam and an average one in Collins and one admittedly terrible one in Trae. Our bench is loaded for war with Teague, Red Velvet, Hunter, Skal and Dedmon. That's a legit 10 man rotation with roles easily understood and embraced. 

That team could easily contend with anyone in the East and dare I say the West as well.

Well and there's cap room left after that as well.

I signed Teague for $5 mil/per

Accepted the offer on Skal at $7 mil/

Put Paul George on the team and removed the 1st round pick.

If you add Brandon Goodwin, that puts you at 12 rostered players and approximately $14 million left to spend. That's an awful lot to throw at someone worthwhile or to bring someone else star level by sending out Dedmon.

[Peoriabird]

49 minutes ago, thecampster said:

We have money to spend and are going to spend it on someone. All I need is for someone to say we're going to get player "Z" who is better. I'd settle for players x, y, and Z who are cumulatively better.

The problem with PG is even with the Clippers in the playoffs he played at time with no passion so I'm afraid that he would get to Atlanta and not care about anything except collecting a paycheck.  Y'all keep coming up with these Butler comparison but I just don't see it.  Butler always played with passion and was on his teammates in Minnesota about not caring about wins.  I just don't see than in PG.

[bird_dirt]

51 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'm sitting here trying to see the down side.

 

So we run out Trae, Cam, PG, Collins, Capela and have a bench with Teague, Huerter, Hunter, Skal, Dedmon....am I missing something?  That's pretty deep compared to where we were in January. Basically a 1 -2 year rental. If he doesn't work out, we sell him to a rebuilding team after the season who wants to clear cap room.

The downside is loss of future assets that would help the team after PG leaves in one season. It gets even worse if PG isn't "all in" while he's in Atlanta and negates the potential  benefits of him on the roster. 

PG has to be the most vanilla top 25 player there is. I have little faith in his impact with each passing day as he ages.

If it was just #6 this year for PG, I'd be down with that. But if we're sending multiple first round picks, and/or current Hawks, then I'm not feeling it. I'll hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. 

[thecampster]

17 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

The downside is loss of future assets that would help the team after PG leaves in one season. It gets even worse if PG isn't "all in" while he's in Atlanta and negates the potential  benefits of him on the roster. 

PG has to be the most vanilla top 25 player there is. I have little faith in his impact with each passing day as he ages.

If it was just #6 this year for PG, I'd be down with that. But if we're sending multiple first round picks, and/or current Hawks, then I'm not feeling it. I'll hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. 

So here's the reality. The Hawks have close to $50 million to spend, trade for this year and someone is going to be here that greatly improves this team. When you consider we played without Capela, Skal, Teague for most of the year or none of the year and no Collins for 25 games...this team is going to be much, much better this year. I'm not really worried about future assets at this point. All future assets will most probably not be in the lottery.

[marco102]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

The downside is loss of future assets that would help the team after PG leaves in one season. It gets even worse if PG isn't "all in" while he's in Atlanta and negates the potential  benefits of him on the roster. 

PG has to be the most vanilla top 25 player there is. I have little faith in his impact with each passing day as he ages.

If it was just #6 this year for PG, I'd be down with that. But if we're sending multiple first round picks, and/or current Hawks, then I'm not feeling it. I'll hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. 

The Hawks should still have cap space in 2022 to fill out the roster and the OKC 2022 first round pick.  I don't believe it will convey though.