Official Game Thread: Wizards at Hawks (Manic Monday)

[NBASupes]

52 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

If you're definition of superstar is Jokic, Giannis, LeBron, Jokic, Steph, then Trae is not a superstar. No one outside of Hawks homers considers Trae in that group. Trae came in at 16 on ESPN's top 25 under 25, behind guys like Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr and Brandon Ingram. So like I said what's your definition of Superstar? Top 10 player? Trae would not make any top 10 list, sorry. The Ringer came out with their top 25 NBA players last week and Trae did not make the list. You can say the media is wrong, fans are wrong, coaches are wrong, but Trae is widely considered a second tier star, not an elite superstar.

That's fine to me. He's getting it and that matters. What has to come next is smarter floor game and better shooting

[NBASupes]

43 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

WOW!!  Hawks win!  We got to watch as the original Big O's record fell.  And we still won!  Hawks had a great lead.  The offense went ice cold and the defense forgot.  One Wiz from off the bench quickly hit three in a row from downtown.  

Hawks were great from the line.  Exception:  Capela missed his two line drive attempts.  Ugh.  He had a great game when he wasn't on the line.  When Lou is cold, like he was last night, Graham is sitting there, ready to do his part.  

Tomorrow night we get to do it again.  Don't expect either team to just give up on this one either.  Since the game is on national TV, Washington will try to show everyone how great they are.  I hope Hunter survives his playing time and can give us minutes again.

Kris Dunn has a reputation of a great defender.  Hawks defense could have used some help in the opening of the 4th quarter when our opponent went off and our offense died.  With a dead offense and a dead defense, that made a potential blow out into a nail biter.  

Did we learn anything from last night's game?  I surely hope so.

GO ATL HAWKS !!

Kris is just too far away right now. This really should be a redshirt year as last year was for Capela for us

[JayBirdHawk]

21 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm not sure why you talk up every player on any other team, but sit here and say you agree Trae is not a top 25 player in the league. 

I'm not here to question your Fandom, but fan literally means fanatic. That means we aren't rational or objective. Me being objective there is no way I'm saying there are 25 better players in the NBA than Trae. He is 22 and maturing nicely. You used two of the most subjective lists to support your point.

If Trae played for LA or NY, they'd call him the second coming of Magic. 

Hawks fans forget quickly, don't mind them...Trae is the Hawks Superstar. The more we win, the rest of his recognition will come.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Spud2nique]

38 minutes ago, marco102 said:

If Trae played for LA or NY, they'd call him the second coming of Magic. 

I call him that and have been calling him that. Few point men have had that passing aspect since Magic, Trae is the man.

[bleachkit]

20 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm not sure why you talk up every player on any other team, but sit here and say you agree Trae is not a top 25 player in the league. 

I'm not here to question your Fandom, but fan literally means fanatic. That means we aren't rational or objective. Me being objective there is no way I'm saying there are 25 better players in the NBA than Trae. He is 22 and maturing nicely. You used two of the most subjective lists to support your point.

If Trae played for LA or NY, they'd call him the second coming of Magic. 

I'm using the lists of notable media outlets, they are subjective by nature. How else would you do it? Do you suggest using PER or win shares? Then you'll get an even crazier list. I pride myself on being an extremely objective person, even in sports where being biased is permitted. There are guys everyone agrees are superstars, LeBron, Jokic, Embiid, Steph, Giannis. But once you further down the list it's get a lot murkier. Do you consider Sabonis and Ingram to be "superstars"? Im not sure I do, and those are the type of players Trae falls under, in that second tier. No shame in that at all, but for me that's not a superstar. 

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/5/4/22416337/top-25-nba-player-ranking-lebron-james-nikola-jokic

if you think The Ringer's list or ESPN's list is bull that's fine. 

Let's use an analytic based one.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Here Trae is number 28. But Clint Capela is number 11. Why arent we pumping Clint as our superstar? Clint is more impactful on winning than any other player on the Hawks. 

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Damn y’all got  and Vince? I had to listen to Drew Gooden on NBAtv for the game.  

[NBASupes]

Anyone who has watched Trae this year knows his shooting has clearly regressed. He needs to be closer to Lillard's area. Once he's there with a better floor game. We are looking at a 60 win team with Trae being a 1st team all NBA type. 

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, Thomas said:

Still a great deal Westbrook has been able to pull off. He is truly a fun watch for me. 

Westbrook>Curry the chucker for me.

Westbrook is a rugged throwback type guy that could have hung with the big boys and the physical play in the 80’s. Curry would have been a better version of Steve Kerr. 
 

Michael Adams would have Lou Ferrigno’d Curry. 

ps I’m really upsetting Warrior fans on realgm. @Thomas if I go missing I’ve been abducted by a few bandwagon Warrior fans. But don’t worry I won’t need help, they are soft like Curry. Ayesha! 

[Spud2nique]

I failed to mention this last night but Robin Lopez plays basketball like a caveman.

That’s all I got. 

[hawkman]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I still don't get how this type of performance has become "ho-hum" to Hawks fans. This is NOT normal. I'm not sure everyone understands the gravity of what's happening right now. This is only his third season. Remember where Damian Lillard was at age 22? Trae is a 30ppg 10apg PG in development. Heck, he's practically there right now.

[MaceCase]

9 hours ago, bleachkit said:

So just let Trae shoot all game and say to hell with team ball? No thanks. I dont understand this obsession with insisting that Trae is a "superstar". Who cares. These are just meaningless labels. Just win ball games, that's what it's about. Im more exciting about having a balanced team and not being so dependent on Trae. Look at Utah. They are great because they are versatile and balanced. They dont obsess over if Donovan Mitchell is getting the respect of a superstar, because that's silly and it's not what winning is about.

This is funny because the Jazz are experiencing exactly what the 60 win Hawks team went through:

 

Nobody respects them.

 

Nobody respects them because they don't have a superstar. 

 

Nobody cares about their record or where they sit on the standings, they expect the Jazz to fold to whatever star laden team comes across them in the "real season".  Have you ever seen a team have its two best players publicly told by the media to their faces "you're not good enough"?  Kudos to the Jazz if they can win it all but they'll be considered an underdog in every series even against an 8th seed if it features LeBron or Steph.....or Ja.....or Zion.  The expectation won't be "team ball" matching up, it will be "can Gobert, Mitchell, even Conley step up?"

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, hawkman said:

I still don't get how this type of performance has become "ho-hum" to Hawks fans. This is NOT normal. I'm not sure everyone understands the gravity of what's happening right now. This is only his third season. Remember where Damian Lillard was at age 22? Trae is a 30ppg 10apg PG in development. Heck, he's practically there right now.

I watched that video, not to see Trae's shooting, but to watch the Wizards players on defense, to see how he is able to manipulate the defense and how the defense is just tracking him. We have no one else that can do that - it makes life easier for everyone else.

[marco102]

19 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I'm using the lists of notable media outlets, they are subjective by nature. How else would you do it? Do you suggest using PER or win shares? Then you'll get an even crazier list. I pride myself on being an extremely objective person, even in sports where being biased is permitted. There are guys everyone agrees are superstars, LeBron, Jokic, Embiid, Steph, Giannis. But once you further down the list it's get a lot murkier. Do you consider Sabonis and Ingram to be "superstars"? Im not sure I do, and those are the type of players Trae falls under, in that second tier. No shame in that at all, but for me that's not a superstar. 

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/5/4/22416337/top-25-nba-player-ranking-lebron-james-nikola-jokic

if you think The Ringer's list or ESPN's list is bull that's fine. 

Let's use an analytic based one.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Here Trae is number 28. But Clint Capela is number 11. Why arent we pumping Clint as our superstar? Clint is more impactful on winning than any other player on the Hawks. 

I don't care what your name for it is. You are saying there are 25 better players than Trae. I don't see it. Stats are stats and I'm not a big fan of analytics to define a players worth to a team. I look at how do defenses approach a player. Trae can get his shot and facilitate like few have at his age. If you think Capela and Sabonis affect winning more than Trae then that's fine. 

Just not for me. Keep your stats my eye test tells me you aren't going to find many players at Trae age that can do what he does. The stats actually support that. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Anyone who has watched Trae this year knows his shooting has clearly regressed. He needs to be closer to Lillard's area. Once he's there with a better floor game. We are looking at a 60 win team with Trae being a 1st team all NBA type. 

Agreed, it's an adjustment for him in his overall game having actual NBA players next to him.  Previous 2 years it was about him getting his and the Pnr with JC - now he has many mouths to feed which is a great thing - so there is a learning curve to that.  He will be fine.

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I don't care what your name for it is. You are saying there are 25 better players than Trae. I don't see it. Stats are stats and I'm not a big fan of analytics to define a players worth to a team. I look at how do defenses approach a player. Trae can get his shot and facilitate like few have at his age. If you think Capela and Sabonis affect winning more than Trae then that's fine. 

Just not for me. Keep your stats my eye test tells me you aren't going to find many players at Trae age that can do what he does. The stats actually support that. 

 

I am not making any definitive rankings of players, I am just telling you the general consensus based on the opinion of sports writers, media outlets and analytics. But I do agree Trae does have unique skills that are rare. 

[JayBirdHawk]

35 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Here Trae is number 28. But Clint Capela is number 11. Why arent we pumping Clint as our superstar? Clint is more impactful on winning than any other player on the Hawks.

 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I am not making any definitive rankings of players, I am just telling you the general consensus based on the opinion of sports writers, media outlets and analytics. But I do agree Trae does have unique skills that are rare. 

Gotcha.  I'm saying Trae is a rare breed of player. I do criticize him when it's warranted, but I for sure know he is special. It just upsets me when some of the national narratives try to down play how good he is.   Is he as good as Luka? Not right now, but I think he's just what we need to win a championship. I also think his final form can be as good as Luka.

My apologies for bringing Luka into this..lol

[bleachkit]

13 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

This is funny because the Jazz are experiencing exactly what the 60 win Hawks team went through:

 

Nobody respects them.

 

Nobody respects them because they don't have a superstar. 

 

Nobody cares about their record or where they sit on the standings, they expect the Jazz to fold to whatever star laden team comes across them in the "real season".  Have you ever seen a team have its two best players publicly told by the media to their faces "you're not good enough"?  Kudos to the Jazz if they can win it all but they'll be considered an underdog in every series even against an 8th seed if it features LeBron or Steph.....or Ja.....or Zion.  The expectation won't be "team ball" matching up, it will be "can Gobert, Mitchell, even Conley step up?"

As a proponent of the underdog and team ball, I will be cheering for the Jazz in the postseason. They honestly have a bit more offensive fire power than the 60 win team. 

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Yes, because no one wants a defensive/rebounding big as their "superstar." But a strong statistical case can be made that CC is most impactful Hawk in terms of winning.