Official Game Thread: Wizards at Hawks (Manic Monday)

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, hawkzlova123 said:

Hawks fans let's recognize that we have never had players that can easily go for 35-40 pts. And he does it with 9-12 ast. Like have we ever had a player that puts up these numbers. No. We finally have a superstar, let's treat him like one

So just let Trae shoot all game and say to hell with team ball? No thanks. I dont understand this obsession with insisting that Trae is a "superstar". Who cares. These are just meaningless labels. Just win ball games, that's what it's about. Im more exciting about having a balanced team and not being so dependent on Trae. Look at Utah. They are great because they are versatile and balanced. They dont obsess over if Donovan Mitchell is getting the respect of a superstar, because that's silly and it's not what winning is about.

[hawkzlova123]

29 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

So just let Trae shoot all game and say to hell with team ball? No thanks. I dont understand this obsession with insisting that Trae is a "superstar". Who cares. These are just meaningless labels. Just win ball games, that's what it's about. Im more exciting about having a balanced team and not being so dependent on Trae. Look at Utah. They are great because they are versatile and balanced. They dont obsess over if Donovan Mitchell is getting the respect of a superstar, because that's silly and it's not what winning is about.

Name me the last nba championship w.o a superstar

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, hawkzlova123 said:

Name me the last nba championship w.o a superstar

Define Superstar first. It's completely arbitrary. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by bleachkit

[REHawksFan]

4 hours ago, bleachkit said:

So just let Trae shoot all game and say to hell with team ball? No thanks. I dont understand this obsession with insisting that Trae is a "superstar". Who cares. These are just meaningless labels. Just win ball games, that's what it's about. Im more exciting about having a balanced team and not being so dependent on Trae. Look at Utah. They are great because they are versatile and balanced. They dont obsess over if Donovan Mitchell is getting the respect of a superstar, because that's silly and it's not what winning is about.

I guess my question is why does superstar to you mean "shoot all game and say to hell with team ball?"  

Giannis is a superstar, do they not play team ball?  That's a hallmark of Bud-ball.

LBJ is perhaps the greatest superstar of all time. Do the Lakers not operate as a team?

How about Philly with Embiid?  They've got tons of guys that score and facilitate.

Denver with Joker?  Steph with GSW during their run with Draymond, Klay, and KD?  

 

I'm not sure where the idea that the TEAM couldn't exist if a superstar player existed came from, but it's not borne in reality, imo.  The hallmark of a superstar player is that he makes his teammates better.  He elevates the team.  And yes, when the TEAM is in trouble, a lot of the time the superstar player goes to work to pull the game out.  

 

I haven't seen anyone on this forum or other suggest that Trae take 50 shots a game.  Or 40. Or 30.  I haven't seen anyone suggest he take all the shots or even a majority of them.  And I'm probably Trae's 2nd biggest stan on this board. 

What has been said is Trae needs to be the leader and take control rather than be passive.  Sometimes that means scoring and other times facilitating.  The great thing about Nate has been the institution of a TEAM concept around Trae that was void with LP.  So now the TEAM doesn't HAVE TO have Trae go nuclear to win.  He can play poorly and still see the team win.  But ultimately, he's a superstar because he makes guys better and is one of the top players in the NBA. 

[RedDawg#8]

18 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

What has been said is Trae needs to be the leader and take control rather than be passive.  Sometimes that means scoring and other times facilitating.  The great thing about Nate has been the institution of a TEAM concept around Trae that was void with LP.  So now the TEAM doesn't HAVE TO have Trae go nuclear to win.  He can play poorly and still see the team win.  But ultimately, he's a superstar because he makes guys better and is one of the top players in the NBA. 

This part. I don't care if he scores 40 or racks up 15 assists, I just want him to make good decisions and have discernment between time and place. 

Early shot clock, late game, you can tell when he is hunting his deep 3 versus getting the team in to a good shot. That's the improvement you want him to take. 

Get's a switch and ISO's a big, we all know he wants to take that guy off the dribble, so does the defense. He get's blocked at the rim when the play is to read the help side and find the open man. Other stars kill us with this. The defense is panicking, so make them pay.

Getting crazy ball pressure, he has improved getting off the ball and finding his teammates, next is to put some miles on that defenders legs by running through the lane and coming back around off a screen to get the ball back with a defender in recovery mode. That turns you in to a scoring option now and not just a hovering decoy. 

I love aggressive Trae. I love when the defense is on their heels. I hate aggressive Trae when the defense junks up the play and he is forcing something janky. Its the life of a PG superstar. Everything flows through you. But the key word you mentioned is control. He has improved a lot. But he still has his moments. He has to keep improving and we will see this under a microscope come playoff time.

[Thomas]

8 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Oscar's probable response. "They didn't give assists for jump shots made back in the real days." And he is right. Still a great deal Westbrook has been able to pull off. He is truly a fun watch for me. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

All I care about is going 3 and 0 for the rest of the RS. If the Knicks go 4-0 or 3-1, fine but we just need to do our jobs and win out. 

[AHF]

Couldn't do anything more than update the scoreboard online with this one but it was a bit nerve wracking to watch the gap close as the evening progressed.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

Oscar's probable response. "They didn't give assists for jump shots made back in the real days." And he is right. Still a great deal Westbrook has been able to pull off. He is truly a fun watch for me. 

Yeah, both things are true.

Assists are inflated nowadays for a lotta reasons, however, it's still a remarkable thing Westbrook is doing.  It's a shame how many boxscore-watchers (not game watchers) think all that's happening is his teammate's letting him get stats.

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

All I care about is going 3 and 0 for the rest of the RS. If the Knicks go 4-0 or 3-1, fine but we just need to do our jobs and win out. 

Agreed.  Stay healthy, get in rhythm are the marching orders from Coach kg.

Heh, "Coach kg".  What would that look like? 

foh-0-foh, don'tcha know.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Couldn't do anything more than update the scoreboard online with this one but it was a bit nerve wracking to watch the gap close as the evening progressed.

AH lookin' at his phone last night ...

Get it?  'Cause it's a phone ... even though it's not a phone-phone.  Aw, I thought it was funny.

[macdaddy]

Wow.  I went to the game and while it was disappointing that we let them back in it i expected more happiness on this thread that we won a crucial game and Hunter looked great.   Lou, Heurter, and a lesser extent Gallo gave us squat on the offensive end.  

Wiz were hyped up for Russ' record.  hell the arena had a bunch of wiz fans.  Bertans does nothing all game then drains a bunch of threes.   It happens.   Was hoping we had a replay of Hawks final play because JC looked like he was mugged.   

I'll take the win.  We played really well but the bench just stunk big time.   

[Wretch]

I just have to say...  It's been a long time since I really liked a Hawks team this much and have been this excited.  I don't want to change anything.  Not looking at free agents, trades, the draft...nothing.  That will likely change as we start hitting our ceiling, but right now I like every part of this team.  Every guy in the starting lineup is so critical and provides something special.

Obviously Trae is the engine that makes the team go, but to me the thing that is going to make or break us is Bogi.  His shooting is so timely and it makes us dangerous.  How different things would have been if he were stretching the defense in Milwuakee *shudder*

Then there's Hunter who...my God...  I get nervous every time has the ball.  I'm like, "There's no way he's going to make that shot.  That's a big boy play.  He can't be shooting like that.  He can't be THAT good." It's the exact same feeling I had when Trae started putting up crazy numbers with incredible shots and insane passes, with almost effortless efficiency.  There's no way we scored on two phenomenal talents.  Gotta keep the enthusiasm in check lol.

Our GM seems completely competent, we have a great coach, a star, possibly a couple of stars brewing...and the bench is DEEP.  I've not been this satisfied with the team since...ever I don't think.  Hopefully we won't have a complete meltdown come playoffs.

[bleachkit]

3 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I guess my question is why does superstar to you mean "shoot all game and say to hell with team ball?"  

Giannis is a superstar, do they not play team ball?  That's a hallmark of Bud-ball.

LBJ is perhaps the greatest superstar of all time. Do the Lakers not operate as a team?

How about Philly with Embiid?  They've got tons of guys that score and facilitate.

Denver with Joker?  Steph with GSW during their run with Draymond, Klay, and KD?  

 

I'm not sure where the idea that the TEAM couldn't exist if a superstar player existed came from, but it's not borne in reality, imo.  The hallmark of a superstar player is that he makes his teammates better.  He elevates the team.  And yes, when the TEAM is in trouble, a lot of the time the superstar player goes to work to pull the game out.  

 

I haven't seen anyone on this forum or other suggest that Trae take 50 shots a game.  Or 40. Or 30.  I haven't seen anyone suggest he take all the shots or even a majority of them.  And I'm probably Trae's 2nd biggest stan on this board. 

What has been said is Trae needs to be the leader and take control rather than be passive.  Sometimes that means scoring and other times facilitating.  The great thing about Nate has been the institution of a TEAM concept around Trae that was void with LP.  So now the TEAM doesn't HAVE TO have Trae go nuclear to win.  He can play poorly and still see the team win.  But ultimately, he's a superstar because he makes guys better and is one of the top players in the NBA. 

If you're definition of superstar is Jokic, Giannis, LeBron, Jokic, Steph, then Trae is not a superstar. No one outside of Hawks homers considers Trae in that group. Trae came in at 16 on ESPN's top 25 under 25, behind guys like Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr and Brandon Ingram. So like I said what's your definition of Superstar? Top 10 player? Trae would not make any top 10 list, sorry. The Ringer came out with their top 25 NBA players last week and Trae did not make the list. You can say the media is wrong, fans are wrong, coaches are wrong, but Trae is widely considered a second tier star, not an elite superstar.

[Gray Mule]

WOW!!  Hawks win!  We got to watch as the original Big O's record fell.  And we still won!  Hawks had a great lead.  The offense went ice cold and the defense forgot.  One Wiz from off the bench quickly hit three in a row from downtown.  

Hawks were great from the line.  Exception:  Capela missed his two line drive attempts.  Ugh.  He had a great game when he wasn't on the line.  When Lou is cold, like he was last night, Graham is sitting there, ready to do his part.  

Tomorrow night we get to do it again.  Don't expect either team to just give up on this one either.  Since the game is on national TV, Washington will try to show everyone how great they are.  I hope Hunter survives his playing time and can give us minutes again.

Kris Dunn has a reputation of a great defender.  Hawks defense could have used some help in the opening of the 4th quarter when our opponent went off and our offense died.  With a dead offense and a dead defense, that made a potential blow out into a nail biter.  

Did we learn anything from last night's game?  I surely hope so.

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[hylndr11]

12 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

If you're definition of superstar is Jokic, Giannis, LeBron, Jokic, Steph, then Trae is not a superstar. No one outside of Hawks homers considers Trae in that group. Trae came in at 16 on ESPN's top 25 under 25, behind guys like Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr and Brandon Ingram. So like I said what's your definition of Superstar? Top 10 player? Trae would not make any top 10 list, sorry. The Ringer came out with their top 25 NBA players last week and Trae did not make the list. You can say the media is wrong, fans are wrong, coaches are wrong, but Trae is widely considered a second tier star, not an elite superstar.

And this will be made clear in the playoffs, and we'll keep going with this.argument, I don't know why we can't just be hawks fans, who cares who's on the team if we can get a chip, that's what we need here period, I don't think we are that far away from our ceiling barring Hunters integration, we've already had good convo about the cileing of the team as it's constructed,  yes one can always always say do who you gonna replace such and such with , It doesn't matter, but if trae isn't the guy he isn't the guy and we will have to move on, it'd just a matter of how soon this happens for him or any player, but I hope after playoffs the fans will have a more realistic view of the team.  Not saying we can't win with these guys but there is def some unrealistic views.of who trae.is on the board.  It's.not.nec a bad thing, we need at least 3 good def players to mask the holes we have with smaller players

 

 

 

 

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, hylndr11 said:

And this will be made clear in the playoffs, and we'll keep going with this.argument, I don't know why we can't just be hawks fans, who cares who's on the team if we can get a chip, that's what we need here period, I don't think we are that far away from our ceiling barring Hunters integration, we've already had good convo about the cileing of the team as it's constructed,  yes one can always always say do who you gonna replace such and such with , It doesn't matter, but if trae isn't the guy he isn't the guy and we will have to move on, it'd just a matter of how soon this happens for him or any player, but I hope after playoffs the fans will have a more realistic view of the team.  Not saying we can't win with these guys but there is def some unrealistic views.of who trae.is on the board.  It's.not.nec a bad thing, we need at least 3 good def players to mask the holes we have with smaller players

 

 

 

 

I just dont understand this insistence that Trae must be a "superstar." It's dumb, it's just meaningless semantics. But if your talking top 10 NBA player, then no he's not, not even close. Im not even sure he's our team MVP. I love Trae, but stop with this "superstar" obsession. 

[marco102]

Look at that d (pause).

 

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I just dont understand this insistence that Trae must be a "superstar." It's dumb, it's just meaningless semantics. But if your talking top 10 NBA player, then no he's not, not even close. Im not even sure he's our team MVP. I love Trae, but stop with this "superstar" obsession. 

I'm not sure why you talk up every player on any other team, but sit here and say you agree Trae is not a top 25 player in the league. 

I'm not here to question your Fandom, but fan literally means fanatic. That means we aren't rational or objective. Me being objective there is no way I'm saying there are 25 better players in the NBA than Trae. He is 22 and maturing nicely. You used two of the most subjective lists to support your point.

If Trae played for LA or NY, they'd call him the second coming of Magic. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by marco102

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Look at that d (pause).

Look at that use of "perimetral" (pause)

I know what he's saying but I don't think that's a word.  Don't get me wrong, it should be a word imho.

9 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm not sure why you talk up every player on any other team, but sit here and say you agree Trae is not a top 25 player in the league. 

I'm not here to question your Fandom, but fan literally means fanatic. That means we aren't rational or objective. Me being objective there is no way I'm saying there are 25 better players in the NBA than Trae. He is 22 and maturing nicely. You used two of the most subjective lists to support your point.

If Trae played for LA or NY, they'd call him the second coming of Magic. 

Don't mind bleachk.  He's one of these fans who watches games in one of those corduroy smoking jackets with leather patches on the elbows.  Smokes a pipe and wears non-prescription glasses to make himself look/feel smarter than the rest of us.  He speaks with an English accent although he's never lived 'across the pond'.

Pokes his pinky out as he sips some Earl grey and talks down about his own team to make himself feel 'above' the rabble.  He's so cerebral he can't possible think the Hawks players are better than any others.

This sounds like criticism but it's not.  I aspire to be like him when I grow up.

You think Rayford Young, Jr. is a superstar?  Pishaw, he's barely on Ish Smith's level, old chap.