Official Game Thread: Hawks at 76ers

[lynred]

3 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Im officially in box score watching mode. Got too much stuff going on to dedicate 3 hours several times a week to this team. When Bogi comes back or if the team gets on a roll I'll be back. 

I made the same call after the Houston game. I'll be back when Nate is gone - because I don’t see any other realistic solution. 

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, terrell said:

Kobe also guarded the other teams best player alot... Trae is AI like imo.. But better passer foul baiter..

Are you arguing that Kobe's scoring was a detriment to the team that was counterbalanced by his defense?  If Kobe was a good and impactful playoff scorer, then there is no real need to bring up defense at all unless you are comparing the overall game of certain players.  If you are doing that then obviously Trae is the much better playmakers and Kobe is the much, much better defender.  Clear advantage Kobe at this stage in Trae's career given Kobe's two way game and incredible accomplishments. 

But if we agree that Trae was vastly, vastly more efficient than AI (which was my point) and comparable to Kobe's norm (actually a bit better) then that puts Trae's 2021 scoring in a pretty good place, imo.

And, again, Trae is very young.  Steph Curry had never made the playoffs at Trae's age (and Steph is a legendarily efficient scorer).  At that age, Steve Nash was still two years away from scoring double digit points in a season or averaging more than 5 assists per game.

[terrell]

A clogged lane and no ball movement will do that...

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

But if we agree that Trae was vastly, vastly more efficient than AI (which was my point) and comparable to Kobe's norm (actually a bit better) then that puts Trae's scoring in a pretty good place, imo.

Don't really have a dog in this fight but you really need to look at TS%+ or whatever the one that adjusts for league average if comparing eras.  The way refs call games these days you have a lot higher scoring and a lot better efficiency for top players. I think average TS% is up at least a couple % points.  Not going to change the fact that AI was an inefficient chucker though

[terrell]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Are you arguing that Kobe's scoring was a detriment to the team that was counterbalanced by his defense?  If Kobe was a good and impactful playoff scorer, then there is no real need to bring up defense at all unless you are comparing the overall game of certain players.  If you are doing that then obviously Trae is the much better playmakers and Kobe is the much, much better defender.  Clear advantage Kobe at this stage in Trae's career given Kobe's two way game and incredible accomplishments. 

But if we agree that Trae was vastly, vastly more efficient than AI (which was my point) and comparable to Kobe's norm (actually a bit better) then that puts Trae's 2021 scoring in a pretty good place, imo.

And, again, Trae is very young.  Steph Curry had never made the playoffs at Trae's age (and Steph is a legendarily efficient scorer).  At that age, Steve Nash was still two years away from scoring double digit points in a season or averaging more than 5 assists per game.

Yall acting like I said Trae was trash.. lol

 

[terrell]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Don't really have a dog in this fight but you really need to look at TS%+ or whatever the one that adjusts for league average if comparing eras.  The way refs call games these days you have a lot higher scoring and a lot better efficiency for top players. I think average TS% is up at least a couple % points.  Not going to change the fact that AI was an inefficient chucker though

Thats why you cant compare players in this era with them imo..... If you want to compare Trae with Luka Ja etc fine.. 

[Atlantaholic]

7 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Don't really have a dog in this fight but you really need to look at TS%+ or whatever the one that adjusts for league average if comparing eras.  The way refs call games these days you have a lot higher scoring and a lot better efficiency for top players. I think average TS% is up at least a couple % points.  Not going to change the fact that AI was an inefficient chucker though

Not sure that stat exists but if it did I would wager a ton that TS% plus for Trae still a alot higher than AI. Trae is well above average for his position (PGs average around 54% TS Trae at around 58-59%) whereas AI was among the worst players in TS% in the entire league. Not sure what the PGs TS% was back then but if we assume the increase leaguewide is consistent (TS% has increased by about 2-3% leaguewide from the late 90s to today) it would probably be around 51%-52%. 

[terrell]

12 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Not sure that stat exists but if it did I would wager a ton that TS% plus for Trae still a alot higher than AI. Trae is well above average for his position (PGs average around 54% TS Trae at around 58-59%) whereas AI was among the worst players in TS% in the entire league. Not sure what the PGs TS% was back then but if we assume the increase leaguewide is consistent (TS% has increased by about 2-3% leaguewide from the late 90s to today) it would probably be around 51%-52%. 

In AI defense, he took a beating. You cant breathe on certain players these days without a foul being called...... Hell players were literrally jumping into the defender and getting FT's.... The game is called way different now...

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Don't really have a dog in this fight but you really need to look at TS%+ or whatever the one that adjusts for league average if comparing eras.  The way refs call games these days you have a lot higher scoring and a lot better efficiency for top players. I think average TS% is up at least a couple % points.  Not going to change the fact that AI was an inefficient chucker though

Fair but I think the playoff differences by era are less significant than the regular season numbers:

2006 Playoff TS% = 54.66%

2021 Playoff TS% = 57.07%

We've looked at this before by era with regular season numbers and AI is woefully below league average and Trae and Kobe are way above league average in the regular season.  Kobe and Trae will be much closer to league average in the postseason because volume generally comes at a cost in that part of the season.  There is no remotely modern era in which AI's career TS% looks good.

[warcore]

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Our coaching solution is to hire Trae's college coach.  Guaranteed finals. 

wouldn't be his first go-around here

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, warcore said:

wouldn't be his first go-around here

If that happened, I’d quit as a Hawks fan.  There are a few things that would make me hangem up and that’s one!

Lon would do it. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, terrell said:

In AI defense, he took a beating. You cant breathe on certain players these days without a foul being called...... Hell players were literrally jumping into the defender and getting FT's.... The game is called way different now...

How many times does Trae hit the floor?  You don't think he takes a beating?

Trae also seeks out contact, which is a testament to his toughness.  An attribute that no other player on this team has ( seeking out contact to get to the FT line ).

[terrell]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

How many times does Trae hit the floor?  You don't think he takes a beating?

Trae also seeks out contact, which is a testament to his toughness.  An attribute that no other player on this team has ( seeking out contact to get to the FT line ).

Ive always said Trae was toughest player on the team.. He rarely misses games like the rest of our wussies...

But different eras man.. The game was just way more physical...

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by terrell

[JTB]

8 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I want to see what a good coach can do with our offense before we even think about making personnel changes.  That goes for JC too... makes me wonder if that's part of why he keeps getting in trade rumors but the FO doesn't pull the trigger.  JC has a unique skillset that a good coach could maximize offensively, more so than "take advantage of your matchup" after a switch.  Same goes for Hunter and especially OO.  I think OO could blossom with the right coaches on staff.  JJ as well.

This! 

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

Snyder is widely considered one of the five best coaches in the NBA. I don't know how that would not be considered splashy. 

 

I’d love if we got Snyder. That’s a coach that will build a winning offense around Trae while not allowing the defense to suffer. Snyder is definitely a Schlenk kind of hire. I think a new motion offensive system with some Trae centric style mixed into it would benefit Trae and this whole team.

 

[bleachkit]

59 minutes ago, terrell said:

Ive always said Trae was toughest player on the team.. He rarely misses games like the rest of our wussies...

But different eras man.. The game was just way more physical...

 

 

 

Trae loves ball, there's no question about that. 

[warcore]

20 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

If that happened, I’d quit as a Hawks fan.  There are a few things that would make me hangem up and that’s one!

Lon would do it. 

I don't believe you, because here you are... and it's already happened. 

You'll never quit, Squd. 

[benhillboy]

On 11/29/2022 at 2:32 PM, JeffS17 said:

Don't really have a dog in this fight but you really need to look at TS%+ or whatever the one that adjusts for league average if comparing eras.  The way refs call games these days you have a lot higher scoring and a lot better efficiency for top players. I think average TS% is up at least a couple % points.  Not going to change the fact that AI was an inefficient chucker though

Nearly identical outside of Traes much better FT rate.  Note that Kobe’s last two seasons were insanely inefficient: Lakers sacrificed about 300 field goals while accommodating his career twighlight lol.
 

During his peak he had 9 seasons of added field goals, Trae only one, his insane 21-22 campaign of course where he added 13.  Trae in 5 seasons is almost at Kobe’s career mark of subtracted FGs in 20 based on league average because no one with the Hawks really understands shot distribution and ball swinging.

In contrast Bogi has added a league adjusted 72 FGs in his career.  I’ve never been a big fan but he’s been sorely missed.

Edited November 30, 2022 by benhillboy