Official Game Thread: Wizards at Hawks

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

I now see why you guys disliked Nate's offensive scheme so much.  

5 games into last season I was complaining. 

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

5 games into last season I was complaining. 

I'm aware...lol. 

It's not like Quin has eliminated the midrange either.  They still seem to be shooting a ton relative to other teams, but the player and ball movement is night and day.  It's probably because Quin let's anyone initiate the offense, but Nate's system always had the guards doing it.

Edited November 2, 2023 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm aware...lol. 

It's not like Quin has eliminated the midrange either.  They still seem to be shooting a ton relative to other teams, but the player and ball movement is night and day.  It's probably because Quin let's anyone initiate the offense, but Nate's system always had the guards doing it.

Quin did say, yes, he has a system but he also has to take advantage of what players are comfortable doing and what they do best (something like that).

[Final_quest]

As this plays out I'm getting more into the #DemonNate camp.  We came out so flat after the ECF run, and then last year everything hinged on Trae and Murray making a play or not.  It got to be pretty unwatchable.

[Sothron]

34 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

As this plays out I'm getting more into the #DemonNate camp.  We came out so flat after the ECF run, and then last year everything hinged on Trae and Murray making a play or not.  It got to be pretty unwatchable.

Quin IMO is not just a top five coach I think he's the best coach in the NBA. Nate was an average NBA HC. He wasn't bad. He was just average. The difference between average and best/top give is huge.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Quin IMO is not just a top five coach I think he's the best coach in the NBA. Nate was an average NBA HC. He wasn't bad. He was just average. The difference between average and best/top give is huge.

I  hope you are right.  I don't have that level of confidence in him now but I think he is a cutting edge coach with the potential to prove he belongs among the very best.  I just don't think his resume supports it yet.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I  hope you are right.  I don't have that level of confidence in him now but I think he is a cutting edge coach with the potential to prove he belongs among the very best.  I just don't think his resume supports it yet.

I always knocked Quin because the Jazz were regular season heros.  But some of that, or a lot is on Mitchell and Gobert.  They have weaknesses that can get exploited in the postseason.   We have a guy who's proven to be a really good postseason performer in the clutch. Hopefully more than one.  

[bird_dirt]

42 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I always knocked Quin because the Jazz were regular season heros.  But some of that, or a lot is on Mitchell and Gobert.  They have weaknesses that can get exploited in the postseason.   We have a guy who's proven to be a really good postseason performer in the clutch. Hopefully more than one.  

Disclaimer first: I am incredibly excited and happy to have Quin here coaching these guys. We couldn’t have a better guy leading this team. 
 

That said, there is one teeny tiny little bit of reservation I have and won’t get over until after the playoffs. That is Quin’s RS/PS difference, and many of the things we’ve long discussed as important for the PS vs RS play. Namely:

depth vs tight rotations

run and gun vs half court control 

spreading of offense vs having a couple of key stars that can take over the game. 
 

I love how we’re playing, but I also am crossing my fingers that we will be able to keep playing our style of ball in the playoffs and succeed. I believe we can if we stay healthy, but I’m going to be a little nervous until it happens. 

[BrazilianHawk]

Outside of the 4th quarter meltdown, I really enjoyed this game. It's a good thing we can win vs bad teams playing only 2 quarters of excellent ball, but the final minutes weren't funny at all. 

 

Gotta fix that. Other than that I was very pleased last night. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, BrazilianHawk said:

the final minutes weren't funny at all. 

It definitely felt like they lost focus.  The best teams grind people out and don't lose focus like that.  We never were in danger of losing against the Wizards but against another team that could have been fatal.  Feels like a maturity issue for our team to get better at.

[TheFuzz]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I always knocked Quin because the Jazz were regular season heros.  But some of that, or a lot is on Mitchell and Gobert.  They have weaknesses that can get exploited in the postseason.   We have a guy who's proven to be a really good postseason performer in the clutch. Hopefully more than one.  

Did they over-achieve in the RS or under-achieve in the PS based on their talent? I think they had 2nd round talent but won games like a finals contender. Talent wise we're comparable to that Jazz squad. We need one more star, either from within or outside.

[Gray Mule]

Late in the 4th quarter, our opponent "suddenly" went into a full court press.  Hawks acted stunned, as if they had never known of this happening and they didn't know what to do.

Thank goodness the Hawks had a nice big lead.  Otherwise this was a fatal flaw.  They know now that it can happen and have time to prepare before it happens again - - and it will.  All sports teams must prepare for the unexpected.  I'm sure, had this been a close game, Quin would have called a time out and had a good word with the troops.

Next time this happens, I expect different results.  Quin and company will prepare them.

Great to be over .500 !!

Edited November 2, 2023 by Gray Mule

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

among the very best.

Off the top of my head without check and with some possible Hawk biased I got him top 5 in the league… I’ll check the list of 30 though, in my mind right off the bat top 5.

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Gobert

Goberrated- @JayBirdHawk  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

depth vs tight

Here’s you depth  and here’s your tightness ..

I kid of course, family channel. On the serious tip I think all of those issues will solve themselves as we progress through the season. I think when the time comes, we unleash the stars ️ for the bulk but it’s always great when your bench is ready and prepared, plus it’s a long season, these days kids get burnt out faster so they need more blows throughout the season! 
 

ps Nod twice if you’re Glen Willis..  

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I  hope you are right.  I don't have that level of confidence in him now but I think he is a cutting edge coach with the potential to prove he belongs among the very best.  I just don't think his resume supports it yet.

I'm with @Sothron -- wanted Quin as soon as the Jazz released him.  He has a unique combination of very high BBIQ / basketball mind + very high emotional intelligence that allows him to get through and connect with each player, getting them all bought in.  You can see on the sidelines the way he talks to each player is different, the guy just naturally matches their energy and bonds with them. 

Being more successful in the regular season than post season should never be a knock on anyone -- only 1 team comes out victorious in the post season.  The very easy re-framing of his Utah years is to argue he got the roster to overperform in the regular season.  Donovan Mitchell is highly overrated by most, imo, and was not nearly good enough to lead that team to post season success, and from what I saw, their horrendous perimeter defenders were attacked and exposed every year in the post season.  You can only judge coaches based on the talent they're working with, and he was overperforming with those rosters.

And I don't think it's necessary to wait until players/coaches rack up accolades, win championships, and get wide recognition for their success, to give them any kind of props.  I can watch what he's doing with teams and how his teams play and form an opinion before there's trophies and stats to support it.  Same way I could have told you Trae was one of the best passers in the league in his rookie year, even though he had not yet led the league in assists.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

5 games into last season I was complaining. 

Right off the bat you were complaining.  And dead on target with your assessment.

You can't shoot a low volume of 3s in today's NBA, unless you're shooting high 50% FG on your 2s AND making a high percentage of your low volume 3s.  The Hawks were below average in all both categories ( 3FG attempts - 3FG % ).  And they were middle of the pack on their 2 FG%.  That's the recipe for .500 basketball right there.

So far this season, we're still low in 3 pt attempts, middle of the back in 3FG %, but #5 in the league in 2FG%.  And we're #5 in FT attempts and #2 in FT makes.

 

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So far this season, we're still low in 3 pt attempts, middle of the back in 3FG %, but #5 in the league in 2FG%.  And we're #5 in FT attempts and #2 in FT makes.

DJ, JJ, Capela (or OO) are guys who would rather get to the paint, or live in it, than shoot 3s.  That only leaves 2 guys really looking for that shot.  I think this is one reason Bey is getting the starting nod sometimes but JJ is just playing too good to keep on the bench.  

 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

DJ, JJ, Capela (or OO) are guys who would rather get to the paint, or live in it, than shoot 3s.  That only leaves 2 guys really looking for that shot.  I think this is one reason Bey is getting the starting nod sometimes but JJ is just playing too good to keep on the bench.  

 

Bogi has also started slowly from 3.

[hylndr11]

1 hour ago, TheFuzz said:

Did they over-achieve in the RS or under-achieve in the PS based on their talent? I think they had 2nd round talent but won games like a finals contender. Talent wise we're comparable to that Jazz squad. We need one more star, either from within or outside.

Yuk I thought we were far more deep than those teams, not saying I really looked, just from what I am reading here or there.