Official Game Thread: Knicks at Hawks

[JeffS17]

I want Jalen, Bey, and Murray to be a core part of our future.  Probably Trae too if he can get it together but his play in relation to his contract is not good right now.

[marco102]

22 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I want Jalen, Bey, and Murray to be a core part of our future.  Probably Trae too if he can get it together but his play in relation to his contract is not good right now.

If he shoots like this for an entire season, I'll start being concerned.  He's been a slow starter in his career all but one season. 

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, terrell said:

Yeah Trae way better playmaker but both careless as hell with the basketball over there careers..

Trae is frustrating because there are times when he does a really good job protecting the ball and making great passes and other times when he make some really bad decisions.  I would think this year would be viewed as a step in the right direction from your perspective since his ast% is up but his usage rate is down (meaning he is taking fewer shots and passing more in the early season SSS).  

His biggest issue this year from my perspective is his shot.  I feel like he is embracing more of a team game (even if he is better at that some games than others) and the defense feels a bit better this season.

But the shooting is terrible.  35.6% FG% and 27.8% 3pt% are abysmal even compared to last season.  He needs to start heating up ASAP.  His past performance tells us the current numbers are going to be way worse than he will finish the season but I'm worried he is digging such a big hole for himself that even after he heats up it won't be enough to deliver year end numbers that are satisfactory.  

[terrell]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Hmmm...maybe we should actually use some facts here.

Trae Young career efg% .502%

Russell Westrbook efg% .469% 

VERDICT:   Not the same.  Trae +.033%.  That is roughly the same gap between Reggie Miller and DeAndre Hunter.

 

Trae Young career 9.1 apg / 44.1% ast%

Russell Westbrook career 8.4 apg / 41.6% ast%

VERDICT:  Not the same. Trae +0.7 apg / +2.5%.  Roughly the same gap between Mark Price and Sherman Douglas. 

 

Trae Young career 4.1 topg / tov% 15.9%

Russell Westbrook career 4.1 topg / tov% 16.1%

VERDICT:  Very similar.  Trae -0.2%.  The A/TO ratio is not the same due to the gap in assists but very close to the same number of turnovers per game and per possession career to date.

 

The biggest difference between Trae and Westbrook is how efficient they are as scorers career to date.  There is a huge gap between them.  Makes for a bad comparison, imo.

Now do this season...

[terrell]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

Trae is frustrating because there are times when he does a really good job protecting the ball and making great passes and other times when he make some really bad decisions.  I would think this year would be viewed as a step in the right direction from your perspective since his ast% is up but his usage rate is down (meaning he is taking fewer shots and passing more in the early season SSS).  

His biggest issue this year from my perspective is his shot.  I feel like he is embracing more of a team game (even if he is better at that some games than others) and the defense feels a bit better this season.

But the shooting is terrible.  35.6% FG% and 27.8% 3pt% are abysmal even compared to last season.  He needs to start heating up ASAP.  His past performance tells us the current numbers are going to be way worse than he will finish the season but I'm worried he is digging such a big hole for himself that even after he heats up it won't be enough to deliver year end numbers that are satisfactory.  

Yeah At least Trae was in facilitator mode last night and not jacking up 20+ shots when his shot wasn't falling.

That said, like I told y'all before, his defense is so terrible and his shooting is so inefficient that it's not as outlandish as some make it seem to suggest he's a wash at best as an overall player. It could even be argued he's a liability considering how many poor shooting nights he has.

Edited November 16, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

51 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I want Jalen, Bey, and Murray to be a core part of our future.  Probably Trae too if he can get it together but his play in relation to his contract is not good right now.

Murray JJ and trade for a legit young BIG than can SHOOT and play D like JJJ.

Id settle for Myles Turner but he isnt going anywhere.. Indy is ballin

Memphis might be ready to clean house with the way theyre playing and the Ja mess.. lol

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by terrell

[Plainview1981]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Hawks plus minus through 11 games

 

1. Bey. 5.4

2. Jalen. 4.5.

3. Bogi. 4.4.

4. Murray. 4.0

5. OO. 1.6

7. Capela 1.4

8. Young. 1.1

9. Hunter. 1.0

 

Hunter, Trae and our Centers HAVE NOT been good overall this year other than a few moments...

Call it what you want.........

The Trae/Cap duo has outlived its usefulness. It worked before, but the league adjusted after the ECF run. The duo doesn't have the flexibility to adjust. A lot of that is because of Clint's limited skill set on offense. There isn't a lot else you can do with him.

[terrell]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

If he shoots like this for an entire season, I'll start being concerned.  He's been a slow starter in his career all but one season. 

The shooting is bad.…Trae can’t take most of his shots off the dribble.

He can’t create the separation to get off clean looks with his size.

This isn’t 2021 anymore.. he’s not catching anyone off guard... Defenses caught up with him.

Until Trae figures out how to be more effective off-ball consistently, I don’t see his shooting improving a great deal.

But we'll see...

[Gray Mule]

Please note:

Hawks lost the game against the NY Knickerbockers by 2 points.

Capela - - - - Missed 2 free throws.

Young -  - - - Missed 2 free throws.

Murray - - - - Missed 2 free throws.

Yep, three of our 5 starters each missed, making a 6 point difference.  Dang.  

[terrell]

12 hours ago, Sothron said:

This was the first game I question some of Quin's moves. Contrast that with the last two coaches we've had. 

This was a winnable game if we punished NY for crashing the boards and played the hot hands down the line. 

Quin is overrated maybe??

Never been to a Finals. Didn't win anything in College. Fans anointed this dude for doing nothing really...

He's supposedly "the best thing that has ever happened to Trae" though according to Traes' dad..

Hopefully he's right... We shall see...Not off to a great start IMO..

What is his dad gonna say if things keeps going the way theyre going and we're still MID like usual?

Edited November 16, 2023 by terrell

[JeffS17]

You guys are over reacting on Quin faster than you have on any players, impressive to see.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

15 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

So we get another coach ?   What happened to all the stuff over the off-season they were doing , and how they played early, well, teams decided to take that away, remember Timberwolves years who woulda thought teams didn't want to allow 40 to 20 runs.  They take it away because they can apparently,  were not going through 4 coaches on basically the same roster. 

No. 

I'm just saying that we can't anoint him as some great coach, if he has a .500 record after 32 games as the coach of the Hawks.

I do think he's a better coach than Nate. His offensive scheme is definitely better than Nate's. And the guys obviously like him.

But 4th quarter and end of game situations do matter. A good coach has a true feel of the game and knows what is working.

What he did last night was no better than what Nate used to do.  And to leave them in after they gave up the lead, just compounded the entire situation.

I've been saying since last season that Bogi may need to start closing games, especially on a night where he's playing at a high level, and the starter that is about to replace him, is not.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

15 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

So we get another coach ?   What happened to all the stuff over the off-season they were doing , and how they played early, well, teams decided to take that away, remember Timberwolves years who woulda thought teams didn't want to allow 40 to 20 runs.  They take it away because they can apparently,  were not going through 4 coaches on basically the same roster. 

No. 

I'm just saying that we can't anoint him as some great coach, if he has a .500 record after 32 games as the coach of the Hawks.

I do think he's a better coach than Nate. His offensive scheme is definitely better than Nate's. And the guys obviously like him.

But 4th quarter and end of game situations do matter. A good coach has a true feel of the game and knows what is working.

What he did last night was no better than what Nate used to do.  And to leave them in after they gave up the lead, just compounded the entire situation.

I've been saying since last season that Bogi may need to start closing games, especially on a night where he's playing at a high level, and the starter that is about to replace him, is not.

[Final_quest]

3 hours ago, terrell said:

Yeah At least Trae was in facilitator mode last night and not jacking up 20+ shots when his shot wasn't falling.

That said, like I told y'all before, his defense is so terrible and his shooting is so inefficient that it's not as outlandish as some make it seem to suggest he's a wash at best as an overall player. It could even be argued he's a liability considering how many poor shooting nights he has.

It feels that way when he takes a bad shot or has a bad pass.  But have you seen some of our other guys try to make a play with a pass?  Part of why Jalen is a revelation is that he can functionally dribble and pass.  Remember our front line last year?  Trae actually has a good ratio on turnovers when you consider the amount of pressure he puts on the defense.  

It's easy to say that he looks so inefficient and therefore must be a wash, but the numbers don't ever seem to suggest that.  These first ten games are maybe the only stretch where Murray has had a higher net impact than Trae.  He basically didn't all last season.  Last year both the starters and bench mob had waaayyyy better numbers with Trae than Murray.  Those Bogi, Bey, Jalen, and Okongwu lineups killed with Trae last year. 

Before Murray the entire team fell apart if Trae was out of the game.  So I don't see any evidence of Trae being a wash or a negative player.  He's only been close to a wash this year shooting 30%.   

 

 

[JTB]

19 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I get that Synder took out Bogi, Jalen, and Bey during a moment they were either hot or heating up and I understand that if we play the hot hands we likely could have won that game ….BUT how is this being overlooked????

everyone is calling for Synder head or worried about Traes shooting and I get all that but the defensive rebounding was absolutely terrible! 
 

we gave up way too many second chance points!…Quinn made a excellent point that if we rebounded defensively better we would have been in a better position to win the game.

 

Knicks got physical with us just like heat did and we didn’t start fighting back until AFTER getting punched in the mouth…AFTER we let the Knicks set the tone.
 

we need to start games off better with being more aggressive. One thing I like about this years hawks team so far is that they have fight in them…they aren’t hanging their heads even after a bad start and they will get physical….but we need to set the tone first instead of adjusting to what our opponents are doing.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, terrell said:

Now do this season...

The day you see me making comparisons about players based on 10 or 11 games while ignoring hundreds of games played prior to that will be a first.

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, JTB said:

everyone is calling for Synder head

I don't think so.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

You guys are over reacting on Quin faster than you have on any players, impressive to see.

Agree.  Way too early.  I’m not bothered.  

[terrell]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

The day you see me making comparisons about players based on 10 or 11 games while ignoring hundreds of games played prior to that will be a first.

Im just sayin..

Trae shooting is always HORRIBLE at the start of EVERY season..

And this is his worse one yet.........

Shit is ridiculous man..

 

Trae through 10 games, 2020-21: 41.6% FG%, 29.8% 3FG%

Whole season, 2020-21: 43.8% FG%, 34.3% 3FG%

 

Trae through 10 games, 2021-22: 41.9% FG%, 30.8% 3FG%

Whole season, 2021-22: 46% FG%, 38.2% 3FG%

 

Trae through 10 games, 2022-23: 37.8% FG%, 31.2% 3FG%

Whole season, 2022-23: 42.9% FG%, 33.5% 3FG%

 

Trae through 10 games, 2023-24: 35.6% FG%, 27.8% 3FG%

Whole season, 2023-24: ???

 

But lets hope his trend continues and he gets better as the year goes on, because so far its been ugly..

Maybe I should just skip watching Hawks games next year until after Thanksgiving...............

Edited November 17, 2023 by terrell

[bird_dirt]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Agree.  Way too early.  I’m not bothered.