Official Game Dread: Hawks at Hornets

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

But we haven't.  It took Travis 3 years to put a ECF team together around Trae and then we basically did nothing but offload talent.  We didn't try to fix anything but the bottom line.  

Not sure why people don't understand this.

There's an overwhelming urge to blame Trae for everything when he's the only thing that's working at a high level.  It's weird. 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

As far as the first point, It's really confusing to me where we get this idea that the good teams spend money for depth and not core.  

No one has that idea.  Good teams get a good core and quality depth.

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Until we find a legit star at center for Trae, we aren't gonna go up that much. But the gap between 10th seed and 4th seed is minor. It's the contender spots that is massive. We need to improve depth to go to 4th to 6th range. The Knicks is proof on how good is depth. Even the ECF Hawks.

 

Yep.

12 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

But we haven't.  It took Travis 3 years to put a ECF team together around Trae and then we basically did nothing but offload talent.  We didn't try to fix anything but the bottom line.  

Let's also be sure not to confuse offloading weaknesses to be a "Trae" issue.  Like LP hasn't been seriously considered for a single head coaching job since he left us.  Let's not pretend that moving on from him was some "coach killer" move when no team in the entire NBA will touch that guy.  He wasn't even hired as the lead assistant for his next team after leaving Atlanta.

[Spud2nique]

41 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I just canceled my Bally subscription this morning.  This season is a turd bucket.  

I’m on hiatus for now. I still keep thinking about last year’s Miami Heat and how they snuck into the finals after being a play in.

Now we don’t have anywhere near their cohesiveness on D but we have Trae.

It’s not impossible to watch us go far if we start clicking, we have a lot of personnel and talent but these guys are taking it serious and it’s worrisome. Having said that, we are almost auto shoe ins for the play in.

We need to stay healthy and win SOME games. It’s just hard to watch this night in night out it takes a lot out of me.  

[Spud2nique]

Do you all remember getting home from work or school or whatever it was that you did in 2014-15, let’s say around the same time of year and how excited we were to watch Hawks basketball ? 
 

I’m talking about craving it and looking forward to it and can’t wait till the clock hits 7:00 pm EST! 
 

A cohesive machine . @lethalweapon3’s favorite things happened that year because balls were flying side to side. We were like an incredible disciplined hot potato machine in the corner of a bowling alley. 9/10 nights we clicked.

I miss that. 
 

I’m sorry but we are literally walking through muscle memory motions which is great and a common trait of all ers in general but how bout some swinging. I saw one good movement from us I think all game. The Bulls had an awesome one against us with 4:22 left in the 3rd of that loss.

I don’t know what the answer is but I do know one thing, it starts top to bottom. 
 

End of vent/rant/reminiscing

 

 

Go Hawks!

[Spud2nique]

18 hours ago, Dnice said:

Hornets to cover.

Let @kg01 ride on your winnings!  
 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

@kg01 no joke I need Mexico and ATV’s I need to ride. This Hawks team makes me wanna get the f outta dodge broh.  

[kg01]

39 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

@kg01 no joke I need Mexico and ATV’s I need to ride. This Hawks team makes me wanna get the f outta dodge broh.  

I vote we bike to Alaska.  Live within walking distance of the world's last Blockbuster video.

Get parttime gigs there.  Lol at all the blokes tryna sneak into the adult section.

No TV reception.  Just all the 80's and 90's video cassettes we can handle.  80% discount to any squawker that can make it to us. 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Do you all remember getting home from work or school or whatever it was that you did in 2014-15, let’s say around the same time of year and how excited we were to watch Hawks basketball ? 
 

I’m talking about craving it and looking forward to it and can’t wait till the clock hits 7:00 pm EST! 
 

A cohesive machine . @lethalweapon3’s favorite things happened that year because balls were flying side to side. We were like an incredible disciplined hot potato machine in the corner of a bowling alley. 9/10 nights we clicked.

I miss that. 
 

I’m sorry but we are literally walking through muscle memory motions which is great and a common trait of all ers in general but how bout some swinging. I saw one good movement from us I think all game. The Bulls had an awesome one against us with 4:22 left in the 3rd of that loss.

I don’t know what the answer is but I do know one thing, it starts top to bottom. 
 

End of vent/rant/reminiscing

 

 

Go Hawks!

I've been going back and watching those Hawks teams and the earlier Joe/Josh/Horford teams. It is so nice to remember a time when the Hawks actually played defense.

[bird_dirt]

My feed via league pass kept freezing. Finally in the fourth I realized there was no point in trying to continue (probably like how the hawks were feeling at the same time). 
I was scared to come here and follow the thread, so imma just skip this one now. 

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Not sure why people don't understand this.

There's an overwhelming urge to blame Trae for everything when he's the only thing that's working at a high level.  It's weird. 

It's not actually what happened.  Do you guys want to go back and read the threads about keeping the core together after the ECF?  There were 5 rookie contracts on that team.  Even then we were acknowledging how it would be nearly impossible to retain ALL of them.  The only one we didn't retain was Cam and that was because he was a hugely negative player where our bench played better after he was traded.

We signed Trae $43M, Collins $27M, Huerter $14M, Hunter $20M, and then we extended Bogi $18M and Capela $22M.  After the Heat demolished us by ganging up on Trae with 3 guys, we traded half of our future first round picks for Murray and extended him for $30M or more.  

If we had not offloaded talent (Collins and Huerter), it would put us in the top 5 payrolls in the league.

After the ECF I said we should consolidate and get a better 2nd player to pair with Trae and everyone told me things like Cam is better than Siakam or Collins is better than Sabonis.  They said we should retain the core, which would put us in the top 3 payrolls in the league today if no talent was offloaded.  So I got a big issue with people who were begging to retain the core back then. 

We had to offload talent.  The talent we blew our wad on didn't deliver.  That's what I think people don't understand.  Keeping Huerter and Collins would put us at the #3 payroll in the league this year, but for a play in level roster.  And we have raises for Okongwu and Murray due next year.  

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

No one has that idea.  Good teams get a good core and quality depth.

Yep.

Let's also be sure not to confuse offloading weaknesses to be a "Trae" issue.  Like LP hasn't been seriously considered for a single head coaching job since he left us.  Let's not pretend that moving on from him was some "coach killer" move when no team in the entire NBA will touch that guy.  He wasn't even hired as the lead assistant for his next team after leaving Atlanta.

I wanted Portizingis (sp)

[theheroatl]

I think Landry will end up getting fired. He doesn’t seem to be able to control the narrative and that usually turns into a disaster long term. This team is definitely trending towards a rebuild and I hate that. I wish we had decided to build defense around Trae after we drafted him.

 

I feel like Trae was the right draft and Jalen was too but everything after that is super murky

I also think Kobe might be our star SG going forward. I see him as a score first and defensive guard like Klay. 
 

 

Edited February 15 by theheroatl

[FL_BRYANT]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Spend money to go into the LT. No reason for the depth to be too 3rd string. 

You gotta hit on the Murray trade. The 2nd biggest issue you got is fit next to Trae. A big wing who can defend 1-3 who can shoot and be a secondary ball handler with plus size. This player is hard as f*** to find but there are some younger prototypes out there that have this in pieces and you have to develop the rest. Murray for that and picks might be the best value. 

The biggest issue is at center. Capela regression offensively has killed this team. OO is just nowhere near as good Clint in scoring as a movement big. Regardless what the stats say, he's just not the same threat as Houston Capela or prime Atlanta Capela. Just too small and not the same size that takes a lot of space to free up Trae. Defensively, OO is not as good as Clint was and Clint isn't as good as he used to be. I know defense is critical at the 5 but I truly believe with Trae at the helm, offense is more critical as he uses the center as an extention of him. This is why our best success came in the ECF year. We haven't got that verison of CC since. 

Atlanta has to decide if there is that center available. If it's KAT, you gotta land him. Look at FA, no one is available. Look at the draft. You got Flip who maybe not good enough at the movement and finishing but provides shooting and spacing. You got Clingan who provides the best mix of offense and defense but offensively, is his upside high enough and he has injury and health concerns. Missi who has Shades of Capela but needs a couple years of development before he even plays. Then you got Edey, the best offensive big in this draft but can he physically translate to the NBA. If he does, he's probably the next best thing after KAT as an offensive big needed with Trae. So Atlanta gotta solve that. 

Then Atlanta has to get an impact starter from a team scared of the LT. I don't know who that is yet. But they lack starters. 

Moves I would make. KAT for Murray and OO is the goal. If we can't, I don't believe Trey Murphy or Herb Jones is the right path. Then I want Dyson Daniels, Larry Nance Jr. And two unprotected 1sts from LAL or NO. I want that LA 1st. I think it will be for 2025. Not really hyped on the other picks they got with the Bucks. Late 1sts aren't appealing. Trey Murphy is the player that you want from NO but NO hasn't made him available yet from my understanding. Zion is obviously a target but he's not available either. 

Draft one of the bigs with our top 15 pick. I would draft Edey. He's the biggest risk but he's the highest reward. I would really have really do deep research into this as the Hawks. You really have no choice. I would also evaluate Sarr who's far more defensive as well but is expected to be in the top 3. 

I think the addition of Nance would do wonders for Bey on the bench. We definitely need a legit backup PG who's like a starter. I would consider JC TPE for D Russell. I have zero interest in Russell for Murray in any deal but something like cap space for Russell help. We need a backup PG who fits this scheme. We just don't need him to start. There just aren't many low end starting PGs who are available unless we do a SnT for Tyus Jones. That might be our best route honestly. If

Trae/D'Lo or Jones or even a SnT with GS for CP3 if possible/Kobe

Daniels or at best Murphy/Bogi/Kobe

Hunter/Bey/Gueye/Lundy

JJ/Nance/Bey/Gueye

OO/Capela/draft pick center (Edey is my choice) 

Hawks have two 1sts but right now, that Kings pick is looking shaky for 2024. They are falling and the teams in the balance are a rising Warriors team and a Laker team in a playin could be hard ish to overcome. That said, we need a 2025 1st. 

The Hawks just need more development with this current group. Obviously, they are stuck with Clint as a backup but Giving our draft pick or picks, a year of development in the Gleague is the best route. 

The Hawks have to get a starter level backup PG, they have to get another 3/4 who's impactful. Atlanta has to have depth this year. Guys like Kobe, Gueye, Lundy, and whoever we draft just aren't ready to win or beat out the guys in front of them to win. They need to be 3rd stringers. 

If a team like the Pels wants OO, it's gonna cost them Murphy as well as Val. OO is still in high demand around the league and he fits Zion exceptionally well. So Dyson, Murphy, and Val plus picks for Murray and OO is pretty much the deal in my opinion. 

Thanks, is AJ's career over with the Hawks?  The Hawks can't afford to miss on first round draft picks. 

I'm a big fan of Jordan Hawkins on the Pels, heck of a shooter.  

I also believe Edey is draftable maybe with the second first rounder or a trade back into the  second round: . 

Speaking of immobile bigs why wasn't Kofi Cockburn never given a look.  He could score and carve out space in the paint. No he couldn't play on the perimeter or become a starter but he could do what he do for a  few minutes a game by adding physicality.  Knock a few of bigs who come to town trying to bully the Hawks.  Also he can't be worse than no layup making Bruno. 

Lastly  I was hoping the Hawks developed the second team of  Bufkin and AJ as a big backcourt that can shoot but that is looking dismal at the moment plus the Hawks don’t have a stellar reputation of developing ballplayers.  

Thanks for the answer, I appreciate your time and answer. 

 

[kg01]

48 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

It's not actually what happened.  Do you guys want to go back and read the threads about keeping the core together after the ECF?  There were 5 rookie contracts on that team.  Even then we were acknowledging how it would be nearly impossible to retain ALL of them.  The only one we didn't retain was Cam and that was because he was a hugely negative player where our bench played better after he was traded.

We signed Trae $43M, Collins $27M, Huerter $14M, Hunter $20M, and then we extended Bogi $18M and Capela $22M.  After the Heat demolished us by ganging up on Trae with 3 guys, we traded half of our future first round picks for Murray and extended him for $30M or more.  

If we had not offloaded talent (Collins and Huerter), it would put us in the top 5 payrolls in the league.

After the ECF I said we should consolidate and get a better 2nd player to pair with Trae and everyone told me things like Cam is better than Siakam or Collins is better than Sabonis.  They said we should retain the core, which would put us in the top 3 payrolls in the league today if no talent was offloaded.  So I got a big issue with people who were begging to retain the core back then. 

We had to offload talent.  The talent we blew our wad on didn't deliver.  That's what I think people don't understand.  Keeping Huerter and Collins would put us at the #3 payroll in the league this year, but for a play in level roster.  And we have raises for Okongwu and Murray due next year.  

I dont think anyone is saying we should've stayed pat, done nothing, and just let that existing roster age out.  I dunno what the right answers/moves were.  All I know, at this point, is neither did our front office. 

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

No one has that idea.  Good teams get a good core and quality depth.

My point is that they don't spend money on their depth not that it isn't good.  Show me the payroll evidence of a team that budgeted more than $4M/year for players outside of the top 8 on their roster.  Many times the teams with the best players attract quality depth pieces who are essentially ring chasers playing for vet mins.  

Attracting good depth with a high level core is very different from buying it.  No one is spending for depth.  I've looked at the best team's payrolls.  Have you?  

[Final_quest]

13 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I dont think anyone is saying we should've stayed pat, done nothing, and just let that existing roster age out.  I dunno what the right answers/moves were.  All I know, at this point, is neither did our front office. 

OK well directly after the ECF the dominant opinion was retain the core as much as we can.  So at one time the majority did want to stand pat.  They straight up flopped and we added Murray.  That flopped and they tried like heck to also add Siakam the next year.  

All the money was spent, but the people complaining were the same people begging the FO to pay for our ECF core.  Once that decision was made you can't easily swap out a host of overpaid guys for stars.  You have to offload some of them, and honestly we still have more to offload. 

Blaming Ressler for agreeing to pay all these dudes makes more sense to me than blaming him for not spending an extra $14M on Thybulle this year or keeping Huerter.  We saw it at the trade deadline.  No one wants Capela, Bogi, Hunter, or even Murray. 
 

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Blaming Ressler for agreeing to pay all these dudes makes more sense to me than blaming him for not spending an extra $14M on Thybulle this year or keeping Huerter.  We saw it at the trade deadline.  No one wants Capela, Bogi, Hunter, or even Murray. 
 

Well, this part isn't quite true.  Teams want them.  Just don't want to pay what we asked.  That quite a bit different than saying "no one wants" them. 

[Final_quest]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Well, this part isn't quite true.  Teams want them.  Just don't want to pay what we asked.  That quite a bit different than saying "no one wants" them. 

Sure, but we’re trying to improve.  We got offered Grimes.  The reason why we’re not getting good offers is because our players are overpaid.  

Murray is our only hope of getting a good return if we’re talking about trading for a difference maker.  

[JeffS17]

My biggest critique of Ressler is not letting Schlenk make basketball decisions, which ultimately led to Schlenk's departure.  I personally have not seen a window where it made sense to pay the tax, but his meddling in the Murray deal will possibly be this eras death knell.  The move felt like we were Blazers East at the time and that's what ended up happening... only difference is prime Lillard has a higher floor than Trae because of his size and shot making.

[macdaddy]

There were lots of things we could have done.  Retaining Kev and JC weren't our only choices.  We could have moved Capela or Hunter or Bogi for guys with more impact or for more depth.  We could have signed better vets and free agents. 

People act like we sucked after the ECF run.   We were 43-39 but we got royally screwed by covid in december.  We hold the record for most players to play in a single season. Had we not been wiped out by covid games we would have finished probably 5 or 6 in the conference again. 

By the time we got to the debacle with Miami we had a lot of injuries but they just punked us.  it happens.  it happened to them the year before. 

So yeah retaining players from a really good playoff team isn't dumb.  But you have to make moves to improve.  Every other team of significance did that.  Bucks, Celtics, Sixers, Knicks aren't resting on their laurels.