Official Game Dread: Hawks at Hornets

[Final_quest]

19 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

So people really think we have added talent in the last 3 years.  

 

 

I'm not sure anyone is saying we ADDED talent since 2021.  We had 5-6 rookie contracts that were rotation level contributors.  You can't pay all of those guys and ADD talent.  That should be easy to figure out.   

I actually spent some time reading the threads from summer of 2021.  It's extremely frustrating to be telling people what would happen if we try to retain our core.  To tell people that most likely Dre and Cam will not be part of a big 3, but that's what nearly EVERYONE was saying.  To tell people NOW is the time to push for the league's best players instead of keeping ALL of our young guys.  

Hindsight is 20/20, but people were actually pushing for us to make the moves we made and they were bad moves.  Without 1-2 of the other rookie contract players from 2021 becoming stars there was no significant way for us to ADD talent after you paid them 70% of the cap.  

 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Same, I choose to believe that was never a real deal on the table.

It was. Remember at that point it was before Lauri's AS breakout season. Messy Ressy didn't want Lauri's  contract.

[JeffS17]

37 minutes ago, AHF said:

I would contrast Trae with Luka.  They aren't the same player but both share a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses and neither is someone that guys are clamoring to play with.

I would say these are the top players with whom Luka has played:

Kyrie Irving (8x All-Star, 3x All-NBA)

Jalen Brunson (All-Star)

Kristaps Porzingis (All-Star)

 

They have kept trying to add talent and upgrade the top level players next to him.  I have more confidence that they will get to a talented roster around him based on the fact that they have been willing to go for big moves and I just haven't seen the same on our end.  Maybe it will prove out that neither guy ended up being the cornerstone of a championship team when their careers were done.  But I feel like at least we'll get to see Dallas giving Luka more of an opportunity to get there than we will based on the activity by the front office over their careers to this point.

Yeah, he also has the issue the best player he's played with is at his position.  Unfortunate him and KP didn't work out because that was the fit they needed, dude just stayed injured.  Luka is much easier to work around from a defensive assignment stand point and he is a far superior self-creator (one of the best in the league).

Will be interesting to see what Dallas can do going forward, because they still have a decent number of tradeable picks.  But their most valuable player is 1. on a max deal 2. has 1 year left and a PO 3. is injury prone and 4. is a wild card personality.  I can't see them getting a great return for Kyrie, and I don't see them contending with that roster.  The single biggest thing they have over us is Lively looks really good for a rookie and if he can keep getting better, that's a very nice fit with Luka long term.

[theheroatl]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

So people really think we have added talent in the last 3 years.  

 

 

Look at all the defensive talent tho...

 

Tony Snell

Kris Dunn

Solo

 

 

We would EASILY be winning many more games if we had bench players that had defensive skills.

Edited February 16 by theheroatl

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

So people really think we have added talent in the last 3 years.  

 

 

That ECF run was really the worse PR for Ressler lol

We could have this exact same roster today for $184M.  That means no JJ, no DJ, no Bey.  This exact same roster would be well above the second apron.  Who thinks these players are winning anything today?  Probably would be above the second apron without making the play-in game.  Which leads to the real issue, which is we have mismanaged our talent from a pay perspective and simply not drafted well.  It's expected to get equal value talent (with the exception of pick exchanges) in trades, so unless you're developing guys to be better than when they arrived or drafting well, you cannot just magically upgrade the roster talent.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

That ECF run was really the worse PR for Ressler lol

We could have this exact same roster today for $184M.  That means no JJ, no DJ, no Bey.  This exact same roster would be well above the second apron.  Who thinks these players are winning anything today?  Probably would be above the second apron without making the play-in game.  Which leads to the real issue, which is we have mismanaged our talent from a pay perspective and simply not drafted well.  It's expected to get equal value talent (with the exception of pick exchanges) in trades, so unless you're developing guys to be better than when they arrived or drafting well, you cannot just magically upgrade the roster talent.

It's a lot easier to get good role players when your studs are on rookie deals like OKC.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

So people really think we have added talent in the last 3 years.  

 

 

Don't believe those lies, macd.  This is all traes fault.  Curry and Lebron need super teams to win.  Why can't Trae do it alone? 

[AHF]

51 minutes ago, Sothron said:

It was. Remember at that point it was before Lauri's AS breakout season. Messy Ressy didn't want Lauri's  contract.

The idea of Lauri for JC at that time makes sense to me.  The idea that Danny Ainge was willing to give up two firsts to make that exchange seems implausible to me given how tightly he has held onto first round picks during his time as a GM.  Not doubting that you heard it, just doubting whether that was something that would ever have happened.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Wood ya?  (If that’s not a reminder to change my avatar nothing is…)  

Done.  @Spud2nique

Even gave you a former Hawk and potential future Hawk parent.

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

That ECF run was really the worse PR for Ressler lol

We could have this exact same roster today for $184M.  That means no JJ, no DJ, no Bey.  This exact same roster would be well above the second apron.  Who thinks these players are winning anything today?  Probably would be above the second apron without making the play-in game.  Which leads to the real issue, which is we have mismanaged our talent from a pay perspective and simply not drafted well.  It's expected to get equal value talent (with the exception of pick exchanges) in trades, so unless you're developing guys to be better than when they arrived or drafting well, you cannot just magically upgrade the roster talent.

I mean no one is saying have these exact same players.  We're talking about comparables, depth, scoring off the bench.    

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I mean no one is saying have these exact same players.  We're talking about comparables, depth, scoring off the bench.    

my point wasn't really the same exact players, but to highlight the level of salary we were carrying, and the level of talent, in tandem.  Our biggest missteps were not trading guys when they had value.  And out of Cam, OO, and Hunter, would have hoped we had an all-star hopeful.  JJ is our big hope right now, no pressure on the kid at all, but we need him to develop into an all-NBA player

[AHF]

Just now, macdaddy said:

I mean no one is saying have these exact same players.  We're talking about comparables, depth, scoring off the bench.    

This is where Ferry really killed it by signing FAs away from other teams on extremely cost effective deals like DMC, Millsap, and Thabo and trading for Kyle Korver for peanuts, etc.  We haven't had a trade or free agent signing like that for a while.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

And out of Cam, OO, and Hunter, would have hoped we had an all-star hopeful.  

We all did.  Cam and Hunter looked like a perfect high impact pairing.  

(I'm overstating things because Hunter is a good rotation piece but not exactly the Kawhi-lite dream come true.)

[Spud2nique]

45 minutes ago, AHF said:

Done.  @Spud2nique

Even gave you a former Hawk and potential future Hawk parent.

I heard that blue heaven is a place on earth ? Is that true?  

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

We all did.  Cam and Hunter looked like a perfect high impact pairing.  

(I'm overstating things because Hunter is a good rotation piece but not exactly the Kawhi-lite dream come true.)

If Cam wasn't a headcase and you put Bey's mind in Hunter's body, we'd have a dynasty

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I heard that blue heaven is a place on earth ? Is that true?  

Confirmed.

[bird_dirt]

7 hours ago, Sothron said:

It was. Remember at that point it was before Lauri's AS breakout season. Messy Ressy didn't want Lauri's  contract.

EXACTLY.

Lauri then (when the trade proposal was out there) is definitely NOT the same as Lauri now. 
It hurts a lot now looking back with 20/20 hindsight, but it wasn’t such a huge miss at the time. Also, many had a much higher opinion of JC’s value then than what it was when he finally was traded. 

[bleachkit]

8 hours ago, AHF said:

This is where Ferry really killed it by signing FAs away from other teams on extremely cost effective deals like DMC, Millsap, and Thabo and trading for Kyle Korver for peanuts, etc.  We haven't had a trade or free agent signing like that for a while.

Yes, he didn't get enough credit for that. Very good at under the radar signings. 

[Diesel]

On 2/15/2024 at 7:20 PM, StonedDogs said:

You guys will push this goal post back until he's on an Olympic team. Trae has never won a championship at any high level. High school doesn't count. 

You can't stack a team around him. It's impossible. Trae is a stat packing Robin. It just is what it is. I've come to face reality. This team cannot be fixed in time, in Trae prime years to get him all the tools and all stars you guys are asking for. 

Even if he's a Robin... He's a generational talent that you don't trade because you want to go back in search for....

That's just not smart.

[Diesel]

Our failure is trades and player acquisitions. 

Cam, Kev, and JC all traded and all we got back is a 1st round pick. 

Right now AJ represents a failed draft pick. 

I don't trust this front office to go shopping for our next generational talent.   They did a terrible job of putting talent around Trae.  Plus their lips are quiet at the wrong time.   Now is the time to HUSH the false rumors with a strong statement.  Trae Young is on the market.. we are not taking calls for Trae.  Trae Young is untouchable.  IF Landry was to come out and look in the camera and say either of those,  he has my respect because he has put out the fire.   But I don't know if he will.   He's inept at the press play.