Official Game Thread: Hawks at Celtics

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, marco102 said:

1. Don't call me a stan. 

2.  You were the one that literally said Trae is always the defensive problem. 

 

You acting like a Trae stan. I never said anything saying Trae is all of the problems. Stop putting words in my damn mouth. 

He is exclusively the problem on defense. EXCLUSIVELY! 

[h4wkfan]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I use every statistical measure I've ever seen from BR, 82, NBA.com which has a lot and its the best available, ESPN, and lastly and what I value the most, the eye test. 

JC is a 25 on offense and a 10 on defense. Note the highest is a 20 which almost no one but Gobert, Russell, Ben Wallace, prime Dwight Howard has reached.

The lowest is a -20. Only player in NBA that I've ever seen here is Trae Young. 

15 is the highest defensive grade. Few get this.

Intangibles are a +5, that means you make everyone around you better and their life eaiser. Some get it for offense, some for defense, some for both. 

Highest grade on offense is 50 wins. Very few have passed this mark. LeBron did it once. MJ a couple times. LeBron is the only player in NBA history to get 65 wins by my chart overall. He won 66 games on a team no one else was worth more than 20 wins. LMAO and insane.

Trae has one of the highest offensive scores in NBA history achieving a rare 50 this year moving up from a 45. His issue is intangibles aren't a positive on offense and it's a rare negative on defense which almost never happens to non bigs. Usually bigs like Enes Freedom, Washed Whiteside, get a -5 wins on intangibles. Its exceptionally hard for an guard to make life hell for others because they generally get cut or don't ever make it to the NBA. 

John doesn't what he's suppose to do. Very good offensive and defensive player. His issue is self creation, size, positional versatility, and handling mismatches due to his lack if size and positional versatility. 

He's a very good player, not the same skill set as Sap but the same value. Sap really grew with adding range. I wonder how Collins will do the same. He's better at this stage of his career than Sap was but I don't know if he has the upside of Sap to get better than he already is. 

 

This is bullshit. 

I know you’re annoyed with how we are playing. But facts are facts. Rookie lebron took the cavs to a whopping 35-47 record. With a prime Big Z, second year boozer as well as a average/below average players like Ricky Davis and Darius miles. 
 

unless you’re talking prime lebron. Then we are having 2 very different conversations based on what the above poster stated. 

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, terrell said:

I said we played better as a team with Trae and the Gleaguers after that Cleveland game..... They dont need touches and will just focus on things they do best.. Make open shots, Hustle, and defense. Not trying to do too much..Like Hunter/Kev etc....Let Trae and the bigs run the offense.. Thats why CC has to go.. lol

These dudes just don't get it. Trae Ball is here forever as long as Trae is. Its pointless to waste money on wings and guards. Bigs are the ones that need to be extremely talented in this system. They are the beneficiary for Trae's style of play. 

Just now, h4wkfan said:

I know you’re annoyed with how we are playing. But facts are facts. Rookie lebron took the cavs to a whopping 35-47 record. With a prime Big Z, second year boozer as well as a average/below average players like Ricky Davis and Darius miles. 
 

unless you’re talking prime lebron. Then we are having 2 very different conversations based on what the above poster stated. 

I am not annoyed by this. It's our reality. Like with the Highlight factory, they had a low ceiling, this team has a low floor. 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That team was the 3rd seed in the WEST on the day he f***ed up his groin. Get outta here with that bullshit.

Are you talking about 1986 when he only played 18 games? 

LIke why the actual f*** are you coming at me like this when I've been respectful in my posts to you.  You got one more disrespectful post and I'm taking off the kid gloves with my posts with you.

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You acting like a Trae stan. I never said anything saying Trae is all of the problems. Stop putting words in my damn mouth. 

He is exclusively the problem on defense. EXCLUSIVELY! 

You post so much bullshit you forget what you posted. I never said you said Trae was always the problem. I pushed back when you said he was always the defensive problem.  Then  you got your f***ing bullshit posting mixed up and contridicted yourself again. 

Bye man. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Are you talking about 1986 when he only played 18 games? 

LIke why the actual f*** are you coming at me like this when I've been respectful in my posts to you.  You got one more disrespectful post and I'm taking off the kid gloves with my posts with you.

You full of of it. You trying to use LeBron with a serious injury to make up for Trae low freaking floor. Stop it. It is what it is. We gotta work around it and stop crying about it.

Just now, marco102 said:

You post so much bullshit you forget what you posted. I never said you said Trae was always the problem. I pushed back when you said he was always the defensive problem.  Then  you got your f***ing bullshit posting mixed up and contridicted yourself again. 

Bye man. 

I am not going to insult you because I can't. I'll let AHF deal with you.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You full of of it. You trying to use LeBron with a serious injury to make up for Trae low freaking floor. Stop it. It is what it is. We gotta work around it and stop crying about it.

I'm full of it?  Anyone with common sense know the first couple years with Trae we were built to tank.  3rd year and this year we were not.  So feel free to critize him on not getting the team further this year, but just saying he's 45 games under five hundred isn't a good talking point when no one would have had those teams much better.  Especially not a 6'0 small guard.  

You still didn't address the Jordan point which was a legitimate question. Are you talking about the 1986 season when he played about 20 games?  The media were critizing Jordan in the 80's a ton.  They called him a ball hog and everything else.

Edited February 13, 2022 by marco102

[Sothron]

Guys, settle down. We are all frustrated that this team is four games below .500 but going at each other isn't going to change anything.

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

I'm not full of it?  Anyone with common sense, the first few years with Trae we were built to tank.  3rd year and this year we were not.  So feel free to critize him on not getting the team further this year, but just saying he's 45 games under five hundred isn't a good talking point when no one would have had those teams much better.  Especially not a 6'0 small guard.  

 

Your analogy was terrible in reference, an injured LeBron James? Come on man

We were built to tank for the first two years. That's a fact. The success we had Trae's rookie was a scam. Last year, scam. This year is the reality. If you gotta spam, it's probably some rubbish and likely a scam.

He's about 6'2. He's not that short, he's just very small in stature. Likely 175, tops. 

 

[marco102]

Just now, Sothron said:

Guys, settle down. We are all frustrated that this team is four games below .500 but going at each other isn't going to change anything.

The team doesn't have me frustrated.  The disrespectful cursing and name calling does.

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Your analogy was terrible in reference, an injured LeBron James? Come on man

We were built to tank for the first two years. That's a fact. The success we had Trae's rookie was a scam. Last year, scam. This year is the reality. If you gotta spam, it's probably some rubbish and likely a scam.

He's about 6'2. He's not that short, he's just very small in stature. Likely 175, tops. 

 

When LeBron played with the Lakers they were a .500 team. LBJ has the Lakers current roster worse than us.

I was pushing back on the Idea that one player can do it by himself. You didn't even make the post so I have no idea why you made that disrespectful post at me. Like I called you a name or something.  

It was a measured post. I expected a measured response.

Edited February 13, 2022 by marco102

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, GameTime said:

Tito was worth 15 wins.

Hard snort laugh.  Nice one.  

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

When LeBron played with the Lakers they were a .500 team. LBJ has the Lakers current roster worse than us.

I was pushing back on the Idea that one player can do it by himself. You didn't even make the post so I have no idea why you made that disrespectful post at me. Like I called you a name or something.  

It was a measured post. I expected a measured response.

They were 3rd in the west on Christmas day in the game LeBron torn his groin. What are you talking about?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Im past concerned.. Hes turned into straight trash lately. Might as well kept our picks and took Thybulle later in the draft if all we wanted was defense...(Schlenk the GOAT)..... With that said Thybulle might be better than Hunter on offense right now.. smfh

 

I don't think Schlenk is trash, but there has to be concern with some of the recent picks and moves.

We all thought that when Jalen Johnson fell to us, and Sharife was still on the board in the next round, that we possibly got 2 steals in the draft.  Both of those guys then go on to play very well in Summer League, and we all thought that one or both of them might crack this roster.  Sharife even played well in preseason.

But despite the Christmas Covid absences, multiple injuries, and the trade of Cam Reddish, neither of those two guys can even see the floor, despite the team treading water.

That's either a Nate problem, or Schlenk picked 2 guys who just aren't ready.

53 of the 60 draft picks in 2021 have at least played 1 minute this year.  But in total minutes played, this is where our rookies rank:

• Sharife Cooper:   35 minutes total - rank #49 out of 53
• Jalen Johnson:     58 minutes total - rank #44 out of 53

When you see something like this, you worry if Jalen Johnson isn't already a complete bust, in the eyes of the Hawks.  Cooper is a mid 2nd round pick, so if he doesn't make it, that's not a big deal ( because he's been bad at College Park ).  But if Jalen doesn't make it, that's a red flag for sure.

 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

The team doesn't have me frustrated.  The disrespectful cursing and name calling does.

I am quoting the only poster cursing at a poster in this thread. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

58 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

You think points scored is the only way White and PGs like him can exploit Trae?  
 

None of them are in awe of how he gets his production because his missed long threes are so energizing to the opps. They know he’ll never box them out nor disturb their dribble.  Making reads in transition is a cinch because he’s a horrible defender on the run.  I detailed a long list of mediocre guys who filled up the stat sheet in wins against the Hawks while Trae was in the negative years ago and the trend only continues.  I don’t know how else to slice it folk.

Delon got exploited too he was butt cheeks.  Smart and White is just an awful mixture for Trae, same as VanFleet and Lowry were.  Like Burke and Brunson are. Brogdon and McConnell when healthy.  Game managers love facing him it’s damn near fact.  By some miracle we beat the Suns (who don’t have a BU PG I care for). 

 

But he didn't exploit Trae at all.  That's why I posted the video clips of what he actually did.

Smart was the one guarding Trae most of the day.  And Trae actually guarded Smart.

[NBASupes]

Travis isn't trash, he gotta adjust. He gotta realize he's building a team around Trae Young, not around Steph Curry 

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They were 3rd in the west on Christmas day in the game LeBron torn his groin. What are you talking about?

The the Lakers were 20-14 on Christmas day. After he came back, they ended up having a .500 record when he played. 

We just going to ignore all those L's when James was playing?

I got this confused and thought you were referring to my MJ point. 

AGain, the over arching point was you can't sit here and say Trae is 45 games under five hunderd when two seasons the team wasn't constructed to in or are we going to ignore team construction.

Edited February 13, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

The the Lakers were 20-14 on Christmas day. When he came back with him, they ended up having a .500 record when he played. 

We just going to ignore all those L's when James was playing?

I got this confused and thought you were referring to my MJ point. 

AGain, the over arching point was you can't sit here and say Trae is 45 games under five hunderd when two seasons the team wasn't constructed to in or are we going to ignore team construction.

He wasn't healthy when he came back. Its like you are oblivious to the truth

Edited February 13, 2022 by NBASupes

[marco102]

Just now, NBASupes said:

He wasn't healthy when he came back. Its like you are oblivious to the truth

So how does that change the fact of anything I said?

Someone said Trae is 43 games under .500 and as a player that means he's just not that good basically. 

I respond and say even LBJ was in the lottery with the Lakers and NO PLAYER CAN DO IT ALONE.

That was the only point I was making.  Explain why LBJ is in the lottery now. You just can't say a player sucks because his roster isn't built properly.  That's what Ben Hilly did and you had no problem with that comment, but have a problem with LBJ was .500 injuries and all.