Official Game Thread: Hawks at Celtics

[NBASupes]

Just now, Plainview1981 said:

If we could trade Collins/Hunter for JJ/AL this team could win the title.

Possibly 

Hunter isn't even worth 20 wins yet. 

ISO worth 30

Al worth 45 wins

 They would be covering for Trae like a mfer but Trae's life would be A LOT easier as would Capela.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

We missed John’s communication on defense today.  Most of our guys are pretty soft spoken, we need a couple loudmouths on that end.  Your rotations, boxing out, or both will suffer without it.  Although the rotations looked decent to me and Trae getting over screens directly contributed to the low point total surrendered.  Still lost tho ho hum.

He's worth 35 wins for a reason which is more than Trae. He's generally the only reason we beat Boston.

Edited February 13, 2022 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

White's final stat line

4 - 14 FG  . .  2 - 10 from 3 . . . 4 - 4 FTs

14 pts - 5 asst - 4 stls - 2 rebs - 1 blk ( which I needed for my fantasy team, since he's on it )

+12 for the game . . . ( even with Trae on the floor . . . +12 with Trae off the floor )

 

White literally scored only 2 points while Trae was in the game.

 

Just to make sure:

Derrick White shooting

https://tinyurl.com/25kcskum

 

Derrick White passing

https://tinyurl.com/2p8nhfka

 

2 pts ( which came from 2 FTs ) and 3 assists . . . while Trae was in the game

 

OK . . . just making sure

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't care if you highly disagree right now. At some point you will agree and I am talking to that person, not the one currently in front of me.

Trae is always the problem defensively. Whenever you say he isn't is instant cap. 

When he isn't putting in effort, the Spurs game happens. When he does, it's still not good. He has to do a lot more than just put in effort. 

We got lucky with matchups. It's that simple. The Knicks were fools gold and the Sixers had a severe flaw and still almost won if Danny Green never got hurt. 

Milwaukee skated through the ECF. 

Nothing about this team is special. They spam shit like the PnR. Ball movement is underwhelming. Defense is pathetic exclusively due to one player and everyone else gets the blame for that man.

This team ain't going nowhere until they just come to a reality that with Trae. You got a low floor, ceiling raiser where you gotta play Trae Ball to win. I don't know if this can win in the NBA. Maybe it could, he's really f***ing hard to stop offensively. But he's gonna need so much around him. I just don't know. He makes too much.

So you are saying that Trae is just a pick and roll player spammer and let's say if he's in the Spurs or Warriors system he wouldn't be successful? 

And you can't say that Hunter and OO not communicating is Trae's fault when he doesn't have anything to do with that. 

The Hawks went 27-11 last season and Trae was on the court for most of that.  That's why I'm disagreeing that all the defensive problems are his fault.  They were running whatever Lloyd had installed then and probably the same principles for all of the young guys their first three years.  Now it's whatever Nate is doing and they are struggling with it. 

Again, yes Trae can be a problem, but blaming it ALL on him is cap as you put it. 

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, marco102 said:

We are supposed to be deep, but if any of our top 3 are missing we just can't seem to win. 

This time without Collins is going to make some appreciate what he does for us a lot more. 

We need those guys to elevate their games when guys are missing but they rarely do. 

Nate should have gone a different route with starting Gallo, so his bench could remain intact.

[Plainview1981]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Possibly 

Hunter isn't even worth 20 wins yet. 

ISO worth 30

Al worth 45 wins

 They would be covering for Trae like a mfer but Trae's life would be A LOT easier as would Capela.

AL would work with Cap because he can post up when Cap is not in the game and shoot from the perimeter when he is. Al would give Trae another good screener, a midrange big guy and Al would give the team a big man that can contribute to passing and ball movement.

Somewhat what Green does for GS. To some degree.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We need those guys to elevate their games when guys are missing but they rarely do. 

Nate should have gone a different route with starting Gallo, so his bench could remain intact.

At this point I'm with the rest of y'all play the rooks. Can't be much worse than what we are getting. 

Also, Nate's substitutions were very questionable today. 

[warcore]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

At this point I'm with the rest of y'all play the rooks. Can't be much worse than what we are getting. 

Also, Nate's substitutions were very questionable all season long. 

I agree.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, marco102 said:

So you are saying that Trae is just a pick and roll player spammer and let's say if he's in the Spurs or Warriors system he wouldn't be successful? 

And you can't say that Hunter and OO not communicating is Trae's fault when he doesn't have anything to do with that. 

The Hawks went 27-11 last season and Trae was on the court for most of that.  That's why I'm disagreeing that all the defensive problems are his fault.  They were running whatever Lloyd had installed then and probably the same principles for all of the young guys their first three years.  Now it's whatever Nate is doing and they are struggling with it. 

Again, yes Trae can be a problem, but blaming it ALL on him is cap as you put it. 

save your breath man....it's ALL Trae's fault...on offense AND defense.  He makes everyone out of rhythym even when on the bench or not even playing and he should guard every player on the other team.

 

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, terrell said:

So 2 top 10 picks down the drain... And add to that Nate doesnt think OO is good enough to get min over sorry ass Gallo... smh......Good lord what a disaster.....Travis should just step down...I'll drive him to the airport. he and Nate both..

Okongwu needs a lot of work offensively and his team defense needs more work at this stage. Not saying he shouldn't be getting more mins, I am saying Nate is locked into his rotation and he's stubborn as an ox. If you have those issues, he doesn't like it. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

At this point I'm with the rest of y'all play the rooks. Can't be much worse than what we are getting. 

Also, Nate's substitutions were very questionable today. 

...and he picks the most inopportune times to call a timeout, he either calls it too late or when we are on a run, and he will take out the hot player. smh.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

19 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Before all the Hawk Haters start in... I want everybody to answer this question.

When we were up by 10 points and we started the 3rd quarter...

Did the refs calls influence the game???

Before you start with your normal hate hawks commentary.. Just answer that one question...

 

They won't do it.

The Celtics were already starting to chip away.  They didn't need any help from the refs.  But they did get that help with the 4 consecutive fouls on Hunter . . 3 of them off the ball.  Only 1 of them was a legit foul.  Even Doris Burke thought those screen fouls were questionable.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am saying Nate is locked into his rotation and he's stubborn as an ox.

#That'sTheRotation.  So unfortunate, sometimes we don't need guys to be perfect, sometimes we just need guys who will play harder and with energy and focus. I just don't get why OO is not getting more minutes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Possibly 

Hunter isn't even worth 20 wins yet. 

ISO worth 30

Al worth 45 wins

 They would be covering for Trae like a mfer but Trae's life would be A LOT easier as would Capela.

 

In what season was Al worth 45 wins?

He's barely played on teams that got him 50+ wins.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

In what season was Al worth 45 wins?

He's barely played on teams that got him 50+ wins.

it's his love affair with Al man - just let it go.

[bleachkit]

Well this is going to be a big off-season for us. Gotta try to figure out how we can improve this team.

[marco102]

Just now, bleachkit said:

Well this is going to be a big off-season for us. Gotta try to figure out how we can improve this team.

Some trades will be coming.  Might be in the lottery again.

[GameTime]

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

In what season was Al worth 45 wins?

He's barely played on teams that got him 50+ wins.

Tito was worth 15 wins.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Okongwu needs a lot of work offensively and his team defense needs more work at this stage. Not saying he shouldn't be getting more mins, I am saying Nate is locked into his rotation and he's stubborn as an ox. If you have those issues, he doesn't like it. 

 

He has to find a way to get OO on the floor.  If anything, maybe OO gets us a few more extra possessions via offensive rebounds, if he were playing the 4 alongside Capela.

One thing is becoming very evident.  OO might be better than Capela right now.  And if that's the case, maybe it's Capela that needs to come off the bench.  That would completely disrupt the chemistry of the team though. 

So I'm all for either playing OO at the 4, just to give this team a bigger and more physical look . . or you keep starting Capela, but start to decrease his minutes toward 20 - 24 min per game, while getting OO 24 - 28 minutes

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

So you are saying that Trae is just a pick and roll player spammer and let's say if he's in the Spurs or Warriors system he wouldn't be successful? 

And you can't say that Hunter and OO not communicating is Trae's fault when he doesn't have anything to do with that. 

The Hawks went 27-11 last season and Trae was on the court for most of that.  That's why I'm disagreeing that all the defensive problems are his fault.  They were running whatever Lloyd had installed then and probably the same principles for all of the young guys their first three years.  Now it's whatever Nate is doing and they are struggling with it. 

Again, yes Trae can be a problem, but blaming it ALL on him is cap as you put it. 

He's his own system. Even players who he considers brothers who played with him in HS like Porter Jr said as much. He can't fit a system when he is the system. Same for Luka and LeBron. 

I don't know the reference of the 2nd paragraph 

Nate took over for LP, slowed the pace and instead of spamming the 1/4 PnR, he spammed the 1/5 and it worked like magic. Teams finally started to adjust in the last couple of weeks in the RS and in the playoffs but it was too late. In the playoffs, the 1/5 PnR stopped working but but Trae elevated his defense damn near by two to three tiers and became a f***ing menace. We never seen Trae take defensive possession by possession serious since the those playoffs. He finally understood the value of him playing good D. 

You add that to the fact that Atlanta is a superior half court team compared to open court team and you have a team that adjust a lot better in the playoffs which is half court based than the regular season. So Atlanta just fit the playoffs a lot better than the regular season but even then, we still don't got enough even for the playoffs. 

I am not blaming him for everything. That's what you Trae stans hear but that's not what I am saying. 

I am saying you need to build around Trae Young strengths and weaknesses 

Stop spending time looking for wings. It's pointless because no matter what, they are never good enough. 

Get the best 4 and 5 that fit the PnR that you can get. If you can get Gobert, go get him. If you can get Ayton, go get him. Go get the best possible PF you can. Just spend all of your capital on PFs and Cs. 

You should be looking for Kenrich Williams types to play the 2 and 3. You shouldn't spend more than 10 million on wings ever as long as Trae is in Atlanta. 

The only thing you need to know from them is 

A. One of them needs to PDS so when teams double, everything doesn't fall apart who can score on 3 levels. Atlanta has two of them, get rid of one. 

B. Do you have size, can you defend at a very high level and can you make open 3. Wes Iwundu would be perfect but he can't shoot. Atlanta needs to start developing this in the Gleague. 

C. Do you demand quality touches? Then you probably aren't a fit then