Official Game Thread: Hawks at Celtics

[REHawksFan]

33 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae Young is worth 30 wins

Capela is worth 30 wins 

JC is worth 35 wins

 

Iso Joe worth 30 wins

Smoove worth 30 wins

Horford worth 45 wins

 

We haven't had an winning player since Horford. 

We need to upgrade this rinky dink bunch.

This team isn't as good as the Highlight Factory Hawks. They just found something to spam others didn't adjust to in Trae's rookie and Junior year but once they adjusted, we went right back to the same ole, same ole.

I'm sorry Supes, you always make these definitive statements like they are fact but is there any actually data to back this up or is it all just your opinion.  I mean, you are telling me JC is the best player on team and Trae is no better than Clint, JJ, or Josh Smith?  And Al is the best player the Hawks have had in the last 20 years.  

I just don't buy it unless you have something other than your opinion to back it up.  It all seems a little to convenient to just say Trae is a 30-win player like it's some universal fact we are all supposed to just agree with?  

It's like this "wings can't play with Trae" stuff.  Where do you get this stuff?  

 

[Gray Mule]

I suppose that we just proved to everyone that this is who we are.  Sadly but true.  We can't.  We try.  Then the bottom falls out.  We get run over, around and through.

He didn't pass the eye test.  Our all star wasn't.  Some way, some how, he managed to not get the job done.  

We have faced the enemy and he is us.

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

In what season was Al worth 45 wins?

He's barely played on teams that got him 50+ wins.

All of them in his f***ing prime. There is a reason he had so much success in his prime. He was the catalyst and always has been.

[benhillboy]

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

White's final stat line

4 - 14 FG  . .  2 - 10 from 3 . . . 4 - 4 FTs

14 pts - 5 asst - 4 stls - 2 rebs - 1 blk ( which I needed for my fantasy team, since he's on it )

+12 for the game . . . ( even with Trae on the floor . . . +12 with Trae off the floor )

 

White literally scored only 2 points while Trae was in the game.

You think points scored is the only way White and PGs like him can exploit Trae?  
 

None of them are in awe of how he gets his production because his missed long threes are so energizing to the opps. They know he’ll never box them out nor disturb their dribble.  Making reads in transition is a cinch because he’s a horrible defender on the run.  I detailed a long list of mediocre guys who filled up the stat sheet in wins against the Hawks while Trae was in the negative years ago and the trend only continues.  I don’t know how else to slice it folk.

Delon got exploited too he was butt cheeks.  Smart and White is just an awful mixture for Trae, same as VanFleet and Lowry were.  Like Burke and Brunson are. Brogdon and McConnell when healthy.  Game managers love facing him it’s damn near fact.  By some miracle we beat the Suns (who don’t have a BU PG I care for). 

[FL_BRYANT]

Can't win when your starting wings score a total of 17 points . Just can't do it. Too many inconsistent games between Huerter, Hunter,  and Bogi.  Add Trae feeling like he has to play hero ball and you have a prescription for disaster.

Hunter needs to watch film of Kawhi's workout and learn how to generate his offense inside out. Fewer three pointers (except corner threes) and more mid range jumpers. Get a rhythm first then sprinkle in some three pointers. 

If we don't get better more consistent play from our wings then we are in deep trouble . What is it that makes this team think they can come out in cruise control and win? Earth to the Atlanta Hawks, Your not that good !

[REHawksFan]

34 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

How many of Trae's 10 assists went to the wings?

Hmmmm . . . let's see.

 

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=AST&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100856&PlayerID=1629027&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

Wings can't play with Trae.  

Or maybe OUR wings just can't hit wide open shots consistently. I think I agree with @JayBirdHawk Nate's offense SUCKS. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

I'm sorry Supes, you always make these definitive statements like they are fact but is there any actually data to back this up or is it all just your opinion.  I mean, you are telling me JC is the best player on team and Trae is no better than Clint, JJ, or Josh Smith?  And Al is the best player the Hawks have had in the last 20 years.  

I just don't buy it unless you have something other than your opinion to back it up.  It all seems a little to convenient to just say Trae is a 30-win player like it's some universal fact we are all supposed to just agree with?  

It's like this "wings can't play with Trae" stuff.  Where do you get this stuff?  

 

JC is worth for the most wins. How someone defines the best player on a squad isn't relevant to me. Because JC is a 3rd option and hes not a defensive savant or stawart, some will say there is no way hes the best player on the team. 

Because Trae offense is so elite, its him even if his defense is bad. 

For me, worth wins is based on overall impact, regardless of good or bad. 

So you will never hear me say JC is the best player but he's worth the most wins and generally has been since his 2nd year.

[High5]

Lol I love Supes’ made up stats. Regardless of the absurdity of saying any players are worth 30+ wins, we only hit 45 wins a few times with Horford. We won 53 when he missed most of the season.

[h4wkfan]

We gave up 105 points to the Celtics on the road. The same Celtics who have now won 8 in a row and 9/10. Edit: and their offense was locked up until some bs calls on Hunter got him out of the game, and then Tatum feasted on our otherwise weak defensive wings. 
 

the issue today was offense. Trae was inefficient. Bogi did everything he could. Then the rest of the team went 16/47 (34%). Take away Clint and oo who just make bunnies and don’t generate offense. We were 11/39 (28%) generating __ total points. Second edit: 27 pts (without Clint and oo going 5/8 for 12). 
 

complain about trae bringing every one down or he is trash on defense. But the point of it is. Someone on the team has to step up and at a min hit open shots. These are professionals. They shouldn’t need to be in rhythm to knock down open 3s.

 

im not sure where our top 3 offense went. But this isn’t it. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by h4wkfan

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

JC is worth for the most wins. How someone defines the best player on a squad isn't relevant to me. Because JC is a 3rd option and hes not a defensive savant or stawart, some will say there is no way hes the best player on the team. 

Because Trae offense is so elite, its him even if his defense is bad. 

For me, worth wins is based on overall impact, regardless of good or bad. 

So you will never hear me say JC is the best player but he's worth the most wins and generally has been since his 2nd year.

So it's all just subjective opinion?  I mean, you make some pretty definitive statements and then draw conclusions about the players and team based on those statements.  I'm just trying to figure out if the statements have any merit.  Why 30 wins and not 35?   

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's his own system. Even players who he considers brothers who played with him in HS like Porter Jr said as much. He can't fit a system when he is the system. Same for Luka and LeBron. 

I don't know the reference of the 2nd paragraph 

Nate took over for LP, slowed the pace and instead of spamming the 1/4 PnR, he spammed the 1/5 and it worked like magic. Teams finally started to adjust in the last couple of weeks in the RS and in the playoffs but it was too late. In the playoffs, the 1/5 PnR stopped working but but Trae elevated his defense damn near by two to three tiers and became a f***ing menace. We never seen Trae take defensive possession by possession serious since the those playoffs. He finally understood the value of him playing good D. 

You add that to the fact that Atlanta is a superior half court team compared to open court team and you have a team that adjust a lot better in the playoffs which is half court based than the regular season. So Atlanta just fit the playoffs a lot better than the regular season but even then, we still don't got enough even for the playoffs. 

I am not blaming him for everything. That's what you Trae stans hear but that's not what I am saying. 

I am saying you need to build around Trae Young strengths and weaknesses 

Stop spending time looking for wings. It's pointless because no matter what, they are never good enough. 

Get the best 4 and 5 that fit the PnR that you can get. If you can get Gobert, go get him. If you can get Ayton, go get him. Go get the best possible PF you can. Just spend all of your capital on PFs and Cs. 

You should be looking for Kenrich Williams types to play the 2 and 3. You shouldn't spend more than 10 million on wings ever as long as Trae is in Atlanta. 

The only thing you need to know from them is 

A. One of them needs to PDS so when teams double, everything doesn't fall apart who can score on 3 levels. Atlanta has two of them, get rid of one. 

B. Do you have size, can you defend at a very high level and can you make open 3. Wes Iwundu would be perfect but he can't shoot. Atlanta needs to start developing this in the Gleague. 

C. Do you demand quality touches? Then you probably aren't a fit then

1. Don't call me a stan. 

2.  You were the one that literally said Trae is always the defensive problem. 

36 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is always the problem defensively. Whenever you say he isn't is instant cap. 

 

 

[Sothron]

I honestly hope we don't make the playoffs this year. It will force them to make some big trades in the offseason and use our players plus picks to upgrade the roster.

We have to have 4 good to great defenders on the court with Trae. We have to find another playmaker because Trae is the only one on the roster. We need a solid 2nd option that is a true star.

It is a tall order. We know nothing about our two rookies this year because our coach won't play them, at all, even when guys directly above them are hurt in the rotation. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

When I said at some point all of these wings will be traded and all will fail with Trae, people said I was just mad Cam was in trade talks or I was hating. 

I will die on the hill that its worthless wasting so much money on wings when Trae doesn't get them involved enough to get in a rhythm. 

If you want sharps who don't need quality touches like Joe Harris, they aren't that cheap either and give you NO defense.

Trae is hell for other wings and always will be. We need the best possible 4 and 5 we can get and build inside/out. We should never waste serious assets on wings. 

I said we played better as a team with Trae and the Gleaguers after that Cleveland game..... They dont need touches and will just focus on things they do best.. Make open shots, Hustle, and defense. Not trying to do too much..Like Hunter/Kev etc....Let Trae and the bigs run the offense.. Thats why CC has to go.. lol

Edited February 13, 2022 by terrell

[benhillboy]

We’re currently 43 games under .500 in the Trae Young Era including the playoffs.  He hasn’t missed many games at all and no one else approaches his minutes or usage.  Truly Great players raise the floor, folks.  No if, ands, and buts involving the rosters, coaches, and GM.

Edited February 13, 2022 by benhillboy

[h4wkfan]

6 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

We’re currently 43 games under .500 in the Trae Young Era including the playoffs.  He hasn’t missed many games at all and has played way more minutes than anyone.  Truly Great players raise the floor, folks.

Lol. Lebron would not have been  even a .500 team with the cast trae had his first 2 seasons. 
 

Edited February 13, 2022 by h4wkfan

[marco102]

1 minute ago, benhillboy said:

We’re currently 43 games under .500 in the Trae Young Era including the playoffs.  He hasn’t missed many games at all and has played way more minutes than anyone.  Truly Great players raise the floor, folks.

Then LeBron's not great because he was in the lottery with that young Laker's team. Great players can't do it by themselves. 

Even Jordan was ridiculed his first few years because the Bulls weren't inning. 

He did make a leap in his 4th year, but Trae took his team to the conference finals in his third year.

[bleachkit]

Trae has significant flaws, but he isn't going anywhere. So we have to build a team around him. We may also have to find a new coach that can evolve his game. You don't get to pick your superstar, you take which ever one you can get.

[High5]

11 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

We’re currently 43 games under .500 in the Trae Young Era including the playoffs.  He hasn’t missed many games at all and no one else approaches his minutes or usage.  Truly Great players raise the floor, folks.  No if, ands, and buts involving the rosters, coaches, and GM.

We’re 6 games over .500 with him when the team isn’t tanking. Plus he led us to best playoff run in Atlanta Hawks history as a 22-year old. He’s flawed and still learning but we don’t have to unnecessarily cut him down.

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

So it's all just subjective opinion?  I mean, you make some pretty definitive statements and then draw conclusions about the players and team based on those statements.  I'm just trying to figure out if the statements have any merit.  Why 30 wins and not 35?   

I use every statistical measure I've ever seen from BR, 82, NBA.com which has a lot and its the best available, ESPN, and lastly and what I value the most, the eye test. 

JC is a 25 on offense and a 10 on defense. Note the highest is a 20 which almost no one but Gobert, Russell, Ben Wallace, prime Dwight Howard has reached.

The lowest is a -20. Only player in NBA that I've ever seen here is Trae Young. 

15 is the highest defensive grade. Few get this.

Intangibles are a +5, that means you make everyone around you better and their life eaiser. Some get it for offense, some for defense, some for both. 

Highest grade on offense is 50 wins. Very few have passed this mark. LeBron did it once. MJ a couple times. LeBron is the only player in NBA history to get 65 wins by my chart overall. He won 66 games on a team no one else was worth more than 20 wins. LMAO and insane.

Trae has one of the highest offensive scores in NBA history achieving a rare 50 this year moving up from a 45. His issue is intangibles aren't a positive on offense and it's a rare negative on defense which almost never happens to non bigs. Usually bigs like Enes Freedom, Washed Whiteside, get a -5 wins on intangibles. Its exceptionally hard for an guard to make life hell for others because they generally get cut or don't ever make it to the NBA. 

John doesn't what he's suppose to do. Very good offensive and defensive player. His issue is self creation, size, positional versatility, and handling mismatches due to his lack if size and positional versatility. 

He's a very good player, not the same skill set as Sap but the same value. Sap really grew with adding range. I wonder how Collins will do the same. He's better at this stage of his career than Sap was but I don't know if he has the upside of Sap to get better than he already is. 

 

13 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

Lol. Lebron would not have been  even a .500 team with the cast trae had his first 2 seasons. 
 

This is bullshit. 

 

LeBron 

Kev or Cam

Hunter

JC

Len

 

Come on son.

Edited February 13, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Then LeBron's not great because he was in the lottery with that young Laker's team. Great players can't do it by themselves. 

Even Jordan was ridiculed his first few years because the Bulls weren't inning. 

He did make a leap in his 4th year, but Trae took his team to the conference finals in his third year.

That team was the 3rd seed in the WEST on the day he f***ed up his groin. Get outta here with that bullshit.