The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[marco102]

11 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Some interesting takes in this article about potential Ayton trade scenarios. 

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/examining-potential-destinations-for-deandre-ayton

The Hawks portion:

Atlanta Hawks

Hawks receive: Deandre Ayton

Suns receive: Clint Capela, Bogdan Bogdanovic

No ifs, ands or buts about it, Trae Young would make Ayton an All-Star next season. What a fun inside-out duo this is to envision. While Atlanta is nowhere close to reaching the necessary cap space to absorb a massive Ayton deal on their own, a sign-and-trade becomes feasible with all of the talent that could fit into the Phoenix roster.

For the Hawks, Ayton represents another foundational building block to place alongside Young for the long-term. John Collins could be the guy, but he’s been in trade rumors for the past year with no signs of those slowing down. Onyeka Okongwu could also grow into that role, but the Hawks signing Clint Capela to a long-term extension perhaps signals that they see him more as a piece to the puzzle rather than a true building block.

Ayton would arrive in Atlanta and instantly average around 23 points and 12 rebounds per game. On box-score fit alone, this would be the best landing spot for Ayton thanks to the greatness of Young.

If Phoenix had drafted Luka Doncic rather than Ayton at No. 1 overall in 2018, Phoenix may have considered adding Clint Capela to their frontcourt. Four years later, Capela being re-routed to Phoenix in an Ayton sign-and-trade is a plausible scenario to imagine. Capela would provide similar numbers to Ayton while requiring less of an offensive workload. Meanwhile, Bogdan Bogdanovic might vault to the top the NBA's Sixth Man of the Year leaderboards in the near future. Bogdanovic and Cameron Johnson leading the Suns’ second unit? That’s a filthy thought.

These are my thoughts.

If Ayton is there and we get Lavine somehow we are contenders.  Will need to round out the roster with more defenders though. 

[ShooterSays]

Sooooo Cap/Bogi for Ayton and then LaVine in FAgency??? That would be nastyyyy -

Trae / LaVine / Hunter / JC / Ayton

That’s a damn good team! Sub OO for JC if JC is needed to do a sign & trade for LaVine. 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, ShooterSays said:

Sooooo Cap/Bogi for Ayton and then LaVine in FAgency??? That would be nastyyyy -

Trae / LaVine / Hunter / JC / Ayton

That’s a damn good team! Sub OO for JC if JC is needed to do a sign & trade for LaVine. 

Why not throw in a 2nd round pick for Giannis while you're at it.

[ShooterSays]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why not throw in a 2nd round pick for Giannis while you're at it.

Cap/Bogi for Ayton was a quote from the article and LaVine is a FA soooooo…. go find a different dream to cast your gloomy cloud over lol

Edited May 22, 2022 by ShooterSays

[warcore]

HOLD UP.

 

I thought SNT players couldn't be combined with other players/assets.....
So how the hell CHA sposda be taking back all those back contracts of Phoenix to make their offer more enticing? Am I missing something, or does this not make any sense? As far as I know, Ayton can be moved only by himself in a SNT. 

[sturt]

Just. Sayin. (Again. And again. And again. Annnnnnnd you get the idea.)

 

 

Like Woody and Buzz might put it... don't get drunk on the shiny new toys... and don't underestimate the toys that have served you well.

[theheroatl]

As much as running it back seems like a good idea based on a segment of last seasons games and the ECF season, we still are just trying to get a championship not just good records. We need stars plus Trae to get through the toughest ECF and Finals teams. RARELY do teams get the trophy without 2-3 stars (Giannis/Jrue, Bron/AD... etc).

I will be disappointed in Schlenk if he doesn't get both of the stars needed next to Trae because he has enough assets to do so.

A combination of these will do the job imo:

Ayton/Lavine/Trae

Gobert/Lavine/Trae

AD/Lavine/Trae

AD/Mitchell/Trae

Gobert/Simmons/Trae

AD/Simmons/Trae

 

It's a given those teams would require luxury tax but that's what it's all about at this point now that we have a top 5 star (yes he is a top 5 star). And also Lavine and Gobert are stars btw so don't try and argue that. 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by theheroatl

[Peoriabird]

41 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

It's a given those teams would require luxury tax but that's what it's all about at this point now that we have a top 5 star (yes he is a top 5 star). And also Lavine and Gobert are stars btw so don't try and argue that. 

 

Lavine is probably a top 30 player...Basically a back up all star/ Gobert is all defense/ Mitchell is all offense/ AD is a fallen star/ Ayton is a never star

[JayBirdHawk]

18 hours ago, marco102 said:

That Ayton news is disappointing. 

Seems like the Suns would want Capela in return to stay competitive, but what cap space does Charlotte have to take on the dead weight from Phx? 

This one seems a little implausable to me.

Probably my Ayton Bias.

 

18 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This^.

I don't understand what Phoenix would want from Charlotte except Bridges in a double SnT. Charlotte doesn't have capspace to take dead weight....they'd have to be sending out players like Oubre on expiring contracts for longer term deals from Suns.

Forgot to mention that Ayton's  BYC status also plays some role in the matching of salaries.

Quote

There’s one scenario in which a sign-and-trade may genuinely make sense — if a free agent wants to join a team without cap room. However, even that scenario can’t necessarily be handled like a normal trade, since the Base Year Compensation (BYC) rule often applies.

The BYC rule applies to a specific circumstance. If a player is being signed-and-traded via Early Bird or Bird rights by a team above the salary cap, gets a raise of at least 20%, and his salary is worth more than the minimum, his cap figure for salary-matching purposes will be affected. For the team acquiring him, his full salary would apply in a trade. For the team trading him, he would count for his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater.

Let’s use Lowry as an example one more time, and assume he signs a full max deal with a starting salary of about $35MM. Since he would fit the BYC criteria, Lowry would count for $35MM for salary-matching purposes for his new team in a sign-and-trade, but would only count for $17.5MM from the Raptors’ perspective.

 

[sturt]

2 hours ago, theheroatl said:

I will be disappointed in Schlenk if he doesn't get both of the stars needed next to Trae because he has enough assets to do so.

I would understand this sentiment if this was a team like 2014-15... among your starters, you had:

Teague (26 yrs / 5 seasons experience), Korver (33 yrs / 11 seasons), DMC (28 yrs / 5 seasons), Millsap (29 yrs / 8 seasons), and Horord (28 yrs / 7 seasons).

 

I don't understand this sentiment since this team's starters, and particularly its "young core" are nothing like that. To the contrary, you had:

Trae coming into 2021-22 (23 yrs / 3 seasons), Huerter (23 yrs / 3 seasons), Hunter (24 yrs / 2 seasons), Collins (24 yrs / 4 seasons), and the old man, Capela (27 yrs / 7 seasons).

 

The expectations are jilted... what was understood as a "young core," almost overnight, became ubiquitously understood as a core that had/have all already hit their ceilings... and worse... people don't even pause to think about how stunted player development becomes when you're dealing with a merry-go-round of rotations as has been experienced in these covid years (which, knock on wood, finally might be over).

 

I maintain that John Collins is worth $25m, and will be an All-Star, if not next season, within the next two.

 

I maintain that BogBog is game-changer... our version of Ginobili... as long as he stays healthy.

 

I maintain that Huerter is our future version of Ginobili, and better, blessed with a couple more inches, so even more versatile.

 

I maintain that Capela is not the best C in the league, but he's definitely in the conversation when he's playing his best ball, and you can win in this league with a C who is at that level.

 

I maintain that Hunter made strides this season... yes, there were disappointing phases, too, but again, you're looking at a guy whose development has been significantly stunted by health... and even if that were not the case... a guy who is just now turning 25 and with only 3 seasons of ball has his future very much still in front of him... but to hear some fans talk, amazingly enough, he's done.

 

I maintain that Big2O has had two seasons now where he didn't get to participate in training camp, and if anyone has his future in front of him on the roster, it's him. He's not been a consistent force yet, but he's flashed enough that early comparisons with Bam remain easily within sight.

 

I maintain that it's foolish to start ground zero again with yet another backup PG when, to the contrary, Delon clearly emerged (as muah assured you he would, btw... *pats self on back*) as a force once the season settled.

 

This team is *this* close. Tweaking, not overhauling, is the smart play. I'm scared to death.

 

Look. Schlenk is not renown for his trading smarts. He's just not. At best, he's average... and what does average mean?... well, naturally, in a trade you have two teams that agree to terms only after their GMs believe individually that "what I'm sending out is less than what I'm getting in return"... and logically that most times translates to both teams making little progress. There are few GMs who can brag that they've routinely gotten the best out of the deals they've made, so there's no shame really to Schlenk in saying that. But the point is that trades should be expected to be a zero-sum game.

 

This team naturally is going to develop further. It's just what happens. Don't panic. Move Gallo (mainly because you almost have to), move a draft pick or two, and get yourself (finally!!!) a solid backup SF... or, if Jalen's ticketed for that, a solid backup PF... bring Delon back... that's a potent rotation for 2022-23... capable of exceeding .621 truly in the regular season, and with continuity and health, capable of getting back to being in the mix for an NBA Finals berth.

 

[HawkingAwesome]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Lavine is probably a top 30 player...Basically a back up all star/ Gobert is all defense/ Mitchell is all offense/ AD is a fallen star/ Ayton is a never star

Gobert is a liability on offense. Ridiculous even,  2 left shoes for hands

 

[macdaddy]

I would think if we did it right we could just sign Lavine without a SNT right?   I'm not sure why we'd give JC in a SNT?   That's a lot.   Derozan SNT was basically for a future 1st.

[Spud2nique]

20 minutes ago, sturt said:

This team naturally is going to develop further. It's just what happens. Don't panic.

Yup.

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I would think if we did it right we could just sign Lavine without a SNT right?   I'm not sure why we'd give JC in a SNT?   That's a lot.   Derozan SNT was basically for a future 1st.

Oh that’s cuz it’s us. We rarely get good deals unless it’s a Sap on a 2 year trying to resurrect his career then we hit the lottery. Outside of that we don’t get these type of deals.

[theheroatl]

It’s amazing the confidence that some of you have in thinking that there are much higher ceilings for Cap, JC, Huerter, Bogi… maybe Hunter can get it together but he seems injury prone. It’s possible he can put it together like Kawhi but I’m not seeing the aggressiveness yet.

You can develop your team sure but at the end of the day Milwaukee acquired Jrue Holiday to put them over the edge. Same with Jimmy Butler. Championship teams that acquired via trade or free agency multiple stars is the norm not the exception. Rarely did they develop average players into stars. And Bogi Cap Dre JC and Huerter are average players right now in my eyes. I don’t have the confidence in any of those to go out there and win a finals game if Trae goes out. Caps degrading finishing around the rim and lack of a jump hook is an issue for him moving forward.

Once again for the back, we’re talking about championships not good seasons.

Raptors got a good group together for their run via a lot of transactions. Siakam was the one that benefited from Lowry, Kawhi, Serge, and Marc coming in.

I know some of y’all want to believe in the Pistons model but it rarely happens. We gotta be like Milwaukee and Toronto when they won and put it together for a championship. Or else maybe y’all don’t actually want a championship but would rather just see the good guys develop into good players and championship is not as important.

Edited May 22, 2022 by theheroatl

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Lavine is probably a top 30 player...Basically a back up all star/ Gobert is all defense/ Mitchell is all offense/ AD is a fallen star/ Ayton is a never star

Still an upgrade to just Trae and a bunch of top nothing players.....

[terrell]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

I would understand this sentiment if this was a team like 2014-15... among your starters, you had:

Teague (26 yrs / 5 seasons experience), Korver (33 yrs / 11 seasons), DMC (28 yrs / 5 seasons), Millsap (29 yrs / 8 seasons), and Horord (28 yrs / 7 seasons).

 

I don't understand this sentiment since this team's starters, and particularly its "young core" are nothing like that. To the contrary, you had:

Trae coming into 2021-22 (23 yrs / 3 seasons), Huerter (23 yrs / 3 seasons), Hunter (24 yrs / 2 seasons), Collins (24 yrs / 4 seasons), and the old man, Capela (27 yrs / 7 seasons).

 

The expectations are jilted... what was understood as a "young core," almost overnight, became ubiquitously understood as a core that had/have all already hit their ceilings... and worse... people don't even pause to think about how stunted player development becomes when you're dealing with a merry-go-round of rotations as has been experienced in these covid years (which, knock on wood, finally might be over).

 

I maintain that John Collins is worth $25m, and will be an All-Star, if not next season, within the next two.

 

I maintain that BogBog is game-changer... our version of Ginobili... as long as he stays healthy.

 

I maintain that Huerter is our future version of Ginobili, and better, blessed with a couple more inches, so even more versatile.

 

I maintain that Capela is not the best C in the league, but he's definitely in the conversation when he's playing his best ball, and you can win in this league with a C who is at that level.

 

I maintain that Hunter made strides this season... yes, there were disappointing phases, too, but again, you're looking at a guy whose development has been significantly stunted by health... and even if that were not the case... a guy who is just now turning 25 and with only 3 seasons of ball has his future very much still in front of him... but to hear some fans talk, amazingly enough, he's done.

 

I maintain that Big2O has had two seasons now where he didn't get to participate in training camp, and if anyone has his future in front of him on the roster, it's him. He's not been a consistent force yet, but he's flashed enough that early comparisons with Bam remain easily within sight.

 

I maintain that it's foolish to start ground zero again with yet another backup PG when, to the contrary, Delon clearly emerged (as muah assured you he would, btw... *pats self on back*) as a force once the season settled.

 

This team is *this* close. Tweaking, not overhauling, is the smart play. I'm scared to death.

 

Look. Schlenk is not renown for his trading smarts. He's just not. At best, he's average... and what does average mean?... well, naturally, in a trade you have two teams that agree to terms only after their GMs believe individually that "what I'm sending out is less than what I'm getting in return"... and logically that most times translates to both teams making little progress. There are few GMs who can brag that they've routinely gotten the best out of the deals they've made, so there's no shame really to Schlenk in saying that. But the point is that trades should be expected to be a zero-sum game.

 

This team naturally is going to develop further. It's just what happens. Don't panic. Move Gallo (mainly because you almost have to), move a draft pick or two, and get yourself (finally!!!) a solid backup SF... or, if Jalen's ticketed for that, a solid backup PF... bring Delon back... that's a potent rotation for 2022-23... capable of exceeding .621 truly in the regular season, and with continuity and health, capable of getting back to being in the mix for an NBA Finals berth.

 

JC an All Star?

Huerter our future Ginobli? lol

Edited May 22, 2022 by terrell

[Peoriabird]

20 minutes ago, terrell said:

Still an upgrade to just Trae and a bunch of top nothing players.....

Its just that matter of cost muddying the waters!  Pay him the max and you become a treadmill team or the Utah Jazz.  With appropriately paid players, you have more flexibility.  Just ask the Nets, Sixers and Lakers

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Its just that matter of cost muddying the waters!  Pay him the max and you become a treadmill team or the Utah Jazz.  With appropriately paid players, you have more flexibility.  Just ask the Nets, Sixers and Lakers

Flexibilty to do what? Sign more avg to below avg players?

We have more than a few overpaid players on this roster.. lol

Id rather pay Gobert or Ayton 35-40 million than JC and Huerter 40+ million

I mean we just dished out 40+ mill for an aging Gallo for 2 years.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by terrell

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Id rather pay Gobert or Ayton 40 million than JC and Huerter 40+ million

Maybe that's why your phone doesn't ring when the Hawks or any other team needs player personnel advice cause both Huerter and JC have made it to the conference finals...Gobert has not.