The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[bird_dirt]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

Upon closer inspection... yes... it appears I did, your honor.

Ask me why. That is, if you don't already know. Or, even if you do, I'm happy to re-re-emphasize why it seemed only reasonable.

To quote Rosa Parks, “Nah.”

I’m good. 

[sturt]

Here's something you can almost count on... not just here... not just on sports forums... not just on social media in general...

 

When you present a conclusion, and you present the substance supporting that conclusion, and when someone has some way of responding with substance to counter yours...

That's exactly what they do.

 

And when they don't?

Well. Of course. They grasp for any possible deflection, and often... hey, we were all in 7th grade once, right(?)... it attempts some degree of cutting humor.

 

I get it.

 

But intelligent people aren't distracted. They see it for what it is. Rhetorical gamesmanship... and a nothing sandwich.

[NBASupes]

9 hours ago, warcore said:

Y'all gotta stop filling pages with this stupid nonsense. Get a room and get over the dumbest arguments ever. No one cares about the stupid ish you guys are fighting over. 

"He makes this much! Well he makes this much! You're stupid because you didn't know how much this person made!"

Y'all realize what y'all sound like? 

Back to the program.... @NBASupes what's the latest?

I still gotta do the around the NBA post. It's too freaking long. 

[JTB]

One thing that was interesting and a little shocking about supes inside info was the likelihood that their “primary target” is Zach Lavine…..could just be me but this shocked me because I thought the FO would be more interested in getting a big man secondary scorer opposed to a wing secondary scorer / takeover player beside Trae.

If you read through Supes inside details again you can see the aggressive pursuit in a scoring wing player….serious interest (at some point or currently) in Beal, Mitchell, CJ McColumn, Lavine as starters but even towards the bench Brogdan, Fournier, Sexton.

Don’t get me wrong I see that Ayton is the likely second top target per supes inside info but it’s very clear the FO wants another scoring wing player at either SG or SF over everything else seem like AND they are acknowledging the current wings bogi, Kev, Hunter just aren’t good enough or even close to good enough.

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, JTB said:

One thing that was interesting and a little shocking about supes inside info was the likelihood that their “primary target” is Zach Lavine…..could just be me but this shocked me because I thought the FO would be more interested in getting a big man secondary scorer opposed to a wing secondary scorer / takeover player beside Trae.

If you read through Supes inside details again you can see the aggressive pursuit in a scoring wing player….serious interest (at some point or currently) in Beal, Mitchell, CJ McColumn, Lavine as starters but even towards the bench Brogdan, Fournier, Sexton.

Don’t get me wrong I see that Ayton is the likely second top target per supes inside info but it’s very clear the FO wants another scoring wing player at either SG or SF over everything else seem like AND they are acknowledging the current wings bogi, Kev, Hunter just aren’t good enough or even close to good enough.

Trae has stressed he wanted another ball handler to take some of the pressure off him.  Not so shocking to me when you've read their threads about what Trae wants.

[Diesel]

I think we underestimate how much Trae wants to play with Simmons. 

I was watching Trae's interview with Reddick.   The interesting thing to me is that Trae was very understanding of why Simmons passed off... almost credited Simmons for making the right play.  Was a big defender of Simmons'  basketball skill.     Despite what the the inside voices are saying right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see us make a major pitch to Brooklyn for Simmons.  And right now, fans in Brooklyn are so threw with Simmons, they nobody would miss him. 

Could be Gallo/Kev/1st for Simmons. 

 

[theheroatl]

Definitely reading the tea leaves that the FO wants that wing scorer/sg in the Klay mold. Got to be athletic and can score. That is an absolute priority so take your pick of the top of the targets and I'll be happy. Mitchell, Lavine, etc. 

The starting center has to be defensive minded and finish at the rim. 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

One thing that was interesting and a little shocking about supes inside info was the likelihood that their “primary target” is Zach Lavine…..could just be me but this shocked me because I thought the FO would be more interested in getting a big man secondary scorer opposed to a wing secondary scorer / takeover player beside Trae.

If you read through Supes inside details again you can see the aggressive pursuit in a scoring wing player….serious interest (at some point or currently) in Beal, Mitchell, CJ McColumn, Lavine as starters but even towards the bench Brogdan, Fournier, Sexton.

Don’t get me wrong I see that Ayton is the likely second top target per supes inside info but it’s very clear the FO wants another scoring wing player at either SG or SF over everything else seem like AND they are acknowledging the current wings bogi, Kev, Hunter just aren’t good enough or even close to good enough.

Not shocking. It's a WING league. Guys that can score themselves and able to set up others are the premium....Hawks are more in need of another guy that can do this. Not so much a guy that needs Trae to get him his points. That's why I don't want Gobert and his $40 mil - that's too much to invest in that position without changing and upgrading the Trae dynamic.

[kg01]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

I think we underestimate how much Trae wants to play with Simmons. 

I was watching Trae's interview with Reddick.   The interesting thing to me is that Trae was very understanding of why Simmons passed off... almost credited Simmons for making the right play.  Was a big defender of Simmons'  basketball skill.     Despite what the the inside voices are saying right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see us make a major pitch to Brooklyn for Simmons.  And right now, fans in Brooklyn are so threw with Simmons, they nobody would miss him. 

Could be Gallo/Kev/1st for Simmons. 

 

Should I be expecting your application to the Simmons Apologists Society?  The rest of us look forward to your ... initiation.

Seriously though, I think even our .. insiders ..

... have been saying Trae wants Simmons here.  And has for a while.  The tone of that interview shouldn't come as a surprise - but I picked up on it too.  Almost a sales pitch of sorts.

[Spud2nique]

34 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Not shocking. It's a WING league. Guys that can score themselves and able to set up others are the premium....Hawks are more in need of another guy that can do this. Not so much a guy that needs Trae to get him his points. That's why I don't want Gobert and his $40 mil - that's too much to invest in that position without changing and upgrading the Trae dynamic.

Don’t try to sway me with your solid reasoning. 

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Don’t try to sway me with your solid reasoning. 

Sway this way Squd...you know you want to!

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Not shocking. It's a WING league. Guys that can score themselves and able to set up others are the premium....Hawks are more in need of another guy that can do this. Not so much a guy that needs Trae to get him his points. That's why I don't want Gobert and his $40 mil - that's too much to invest in that position without changing and upgrading the Trae dynamic.

IMO,  just do the deals for Lavine and Sexton and add some other wing defenders like Brogdon and call it a day.  At the price tag, just keep Clint and JC and see what happens.  You can always move one of them later on if necessary.  I agree that Gobert is too expensive and I'm starting to wonder if Ayton is going to be as well.  

I'd love to upgrade the C position, but Clint's $19M is very attractive compared to Gobert's $40 or Ayton's $35+.  

[macdaddy]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

IMO,  just do the deals for Lavine and Sexton and add some other wing defenders like Brogdon and call it a day.  At the price tag, just keep Clint and JC and see what happens.  You can always move one of them later on if necessary.  I agree that Gobert is too expensive and I'm starting to wonder if Ayton is going to be as well.  

I'd love to upgrade the C position, but Clint's $19M is very attractive compared to Gobert's $40 or Ayton's $35+.  

Yeah.   If we can get away with only losing Bogi, Gallo, and maybe Capela (if we have to), and bringing in Lavine and Sexton or Fournier then I think we're doing well.    Of course i'm not wild about having to cheer for Sexton but i'm sure i'll get over it.   

Although losing Gallo without adding any scoring off the bench at the 4/5 is going to hurt a little.   We'll need JJ to be good real fast.  

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Sway this way Squd...you know you want to!

[ShooterSays]

Elite wing players like Trae, LaVine, and Sexton, are just more important in today's NBA that paying $40M + for a Center...unless that Center is Embiid or Jokic. Who, btw, are sitting at home right now just like us.

Just looking at the playoff field and teams who actually had a chance to win it all, just about all of them have either elite wings or a Giannis/Tatum.

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

IMO,  just do the deals for Lavine and Sexton and add some other wing defenders like Brogdon and call it a day.  At the price tag, just keep Clint and JC and see what happens.  You can always move one of them later on if necessary.  I agree that Gobert is too expensive and I'm starting to wonder if Ayton is going to be as well.  

I'd love to upgrade the C position, but Clint's $19M is very attractive compared to Gobert's $40 or Ayton's $35+.  

How do you propose we get all 3 though? Particularly since Lavine and Sexton will both need to be SnTs

 

 

[AHF]

Couple of moderator comments:

1. @NBASupes @thecampster @Sothron are free to post on the senior squawk board to limit who is seeing and potentially sharing their posts.  I'm not going to an offer an opinion on the topic of to what extent intellectual property rights extend to posts made on the internet since my IP experience is completely unrelated to that but if you think someone is misusing your posts then you would be able to flag or report those to the admin on the site on which they are using them.  The Squawk staff wouldn't be the holders of a copyright, etc. and so wouldn't be able to do anything with it even if it was originally posted here but if an IP right attaches then you (as the creator of that content) would be the person with that right.
2. Seen some name calling and the like going back and forth on this thread.  Let's try to engage with each other more respectfully than that.  If you respond to the content of the post rather than directing comments at the poster, you'll be better off and the conversation will be better for everyone.

Fan comments:

1. I feel like Ginobili is being really underrated on this thread.  Appreciate the statistical similarity in offensive counting stats but Gino was a beast on defense which was a huge part of his value.  That and his ability to get to the line are the two things that seem to make it an ill fitting comparison to Huerter or Bogi.  IMO, both of them are one-way players today.  There are just some huge gaps in the non-counting-stat metrics.  For example, Manu put up 33.1 win shares his first four seasons.  Huerter has 9.4 win shares over his first four seasons.  Bogi has 16.2 over his first five seasons.  So Manu had more over his first 4 seasons than Huerter and Bogi had combined over 9 seasons and it wasn't particularly close (33.1 > 25.6).
2. On Lavine, the price for a SnT can really vary in a couple of ways.  First, if the player is an UFA and eager to follow the money regardless of who signs him and the incumbent team isn't going to meet the UFA's salary expectations then the team doing the SnT probably isn't going to get much value.  They are basically a needless part of the process that doesn't add value unless the UFA wants to go to a team that doesn't have the cap room and then their only value is facilitating the trade.  Second, that trade value goes up the more suitors there are who are capped out and require a SnT.  At that point, they aren't just facilitating a trade but are gate keepers for those franchises and with multiple teams in the mix  you can have a bidding war going on if the UFA is fine to go to any of them.  Third, the incumbent team should also expect to get more if the UFA wants a SnT so they can get higher raises in a new contract and so doesn't want to sign an offer sheet with another team that wouldn't include those higher Bird right raises.  At that point, the incumbent team has more control and leverage over the UFA and the trade partner.  So just all in all, it is tough to look at past SnT situations to get a good sense of cost because there are so many factors in play.  If we were looking at a SnT deal for Lavine or another UFA, then part of the challenge would definitely be the salary match piece since the Hawks don't have a lot of large "filler" contracts.  (A SnT for a RFA is a very different situation from an UFA.)
3. Delon Wright is an automatic resign for the Hawks, IMO, unless they get an upgrade at guard in the offseason.  I have seen nothing indicating that the Hawks management team isn't happy with the value that Wright produced over the full season.  I'll be surprised if we don't get a big name guard coming here (which is the scenario that could make it tough to resign Wright) or bring Delon back this offseason.

[REHawksFan]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

How do you propose we get all 3 though?

 

 

Just going off what Supes said, I was thinking: 

Sexton for Bogie

Brogdon for Gallo

Lavine for Delon, Kevin, and picks

 

Would give us:

Trae / Sexton / Cooper

Lavine / Brogdon

Hunter / ???

JC / JJ

CC / OO

 

Would still need to sign a couple or 3 wings and another big but overall I'd ride with that and see what happens.  

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Just going off what Supes said, I was thinking: 

Sexton for Bogie

Brogdon for Gallo

Lavine for Delon, Kevin, and picks

 

I'm skeptical about any of those deals getting done but it would be a very interesting roster if they did.

[RedDawg#8]

I’d take a mentally defective yet versatile defender like Simmons over an Center with limited range on offense and defense like Gobert. Simmons doesn’t have heart though, and that’s the only thing keeping me off of him.

Positions aside, we need an influx of players with heart. That’s why I’m ok with Sexton. He is not the most talented dude but he has a dog mentality.

We will never get the return on the value of Dre the player on his current contract. That’s the only reason I would pull him off the table and let him start the season with us, and just field offers for him during the season. If he plays down his value, his contract is still attractive as an expiring. If he plays up his value, we keep him obviously, then can SnT or extend him in the following offseason. But right now, his salary alone brings nothing of equal value back, and you can do a lot worse than a versatile SF with size on his rookie deal.