Official Game Thread: heat at Hawks

[nathan2331]

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

A fluke as in a 1 time thing... This team cant shoot or defend well enough..That team had guys who could get hot at any point during the game.....Bogi aint saving us this season imo.. It usually takes him weeks to get right when he comes back... And he hasnt played 1 min with Murray...  And God forbid CC goes down for any amout of time..

We've already seen that we can defend well when Capela is healthy and playing well. We are missing some shooting from that team, but Griffin has obviously filled some of that void, and getting Bogi back will also help a lot once he gets going. It might take a while, but we're capable of playing a lot better than we've seen to start the season. And it's not like we're a complete trainwreck, we're 11-9 with much room for improvement.

[NBASupes]

To me, there is only three players who make sense on this team

Trae

Hunter 

Okongwu 

Trae because he's a 1st option who is an elite playmaker and by himself make you a good offense.

Hunter because every team needs a big wing who can guard 1-4, shoot 3s at a decent clip, score on 3 levels and draw fouls. 

Okongwu because he's a switchable big who can guard smalls and bigs, rebounds well per36 and can protect the rim. 

Those three,  I can build around. 

Griffin as well. Bogi to a small degree.

The rest, I can't. 

JC can only guard one position and if you limit his touches which we have been doing year after year, you make him ineffective. 

Capela is anti gravity. He always will make it hard to build around. I keep saying. We gotta upgrade that position. 

With PF, move Okongwu there pretty much solves a lot of issues if we have the right personnel. I keep saying this but man, I really really want KAT. Having KAT and putting him next to OO would turn our offense into a juggernaut and give us enough defense to boot. 

Murray honestly is a bad trade. I would honestly offer him and JC to Minnesota for KAT and Anderson. While he helps our defense, we could get more offensively just starting Bogi and when Griffin develops, Griffin. 

Honestly, if the wheels fall off for the Wolves where they are just play in good, we need to call them and offer Murray and JC for KAT and Kyle Anderson. Trade Clint to Utah for Sexton and just try again. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

31 minutes ago, terrell said:

Trae is never at fault in your eyes. .FOR ANYTHING... Super Stan You are.  And +-is only relevant when you want it to be..

I posted a shot chart in which I stated that Trae was 1 - 8 FG in the 2nd half.  I also said in a post to YOU that he has to make shots.

Despite that, the facts are the facts.

Hawks were down 4 when he was out of the game and the 4th quarter started.  After Forrest made his shot, the Hawks were still in the game, only down by 3.  Heat run off 10 straight points before Trae is inserted back in the game, and were down by 13.

 

This is the 2nd game in a row that we've either lost a game, or let someone back into a game, in the beginning parts of the 4th quarter.

Trae gets much more blame for tonight's loss than last night, despite having 14 assists ( which is something that everyone wanted ).

Give me Trae trying to go for 30 points, than 14 assists, any day of the week. 

[Diesel]

40 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Honestly as long as the ownership is penny and diming all these things we are discussing are moot. We are never competing for a championship if we are in the give away young players for nothing so we don't have to pay luxury tax mode. Had we come into the season with Huerter our lack of three point shooting isn't a major issue. Even if OO starts looking like the player he did in that few week stretch last year then we'll let Cap walk and have the same lack of depth. Ownership set the tone this year, until they are committed to winning a championship it won't matter much what else transpires or who is coaching the team. The league is waaaay too competitive to give away talent for nothing and hope to be the best.

You can't win a championship being cheap...

 

[terrell]

Say whatever you want, but if we can’t beat the Rockets or the Heat without Cap but with Trae, Murray, Collins, OO, Hunter then we are dog trash…… Im not expecting much this season.. Hopefully when Bogi is back we will have fewer scoring droughts. But IDK. Takes him a while to get going...

Happiest person after the last 2 games is CC's agent....

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

To me, there is only three players who make sense on this team

Trae

Hunter 

Okongwu 

Trae because he's a 1st option who is an elite playmaker and by himself make you a good offense.

Hunter because every team needs a big wing who can guard 1-4, shoot 3s at a decent clip, score on 3 levels and draw fouls. 

Okongwu because he's a switchable big who can guard smalls and bigs, rebounds well per36 and can protect the rim. 

Those three,  I can build around. 

Griffin as well. Bogi to a small degree.

The rest, I can't. 

JC can only guard one position and if you limit his touches which we have been doing year after year, you make him ineffective. 

Capela is anti gravity. He always will make it hard to build around. I keep saying. We gotta upgrade that position. 

With PF, move Okongwu there pretty much solves a lot of issues if we have the right personnel. I keep saying this but man, I really really want KAT. Having KAT and putting him next to OO would turn our offense into a juggernaut and give us enough defense to boot. 

Murray honestly is a bad trade. I would honestly offer him and JC to Minnesota for KAT and Anderson. While he helps our defense, we could get more offensively just starting Bogi and when Griffin develops, Griffin. 

Honestly, if the wheels fall off for the Wolves where they are just play in good, we need to call them and offer Murray and JC for KAT and Kyle Anderson. Trade Clint to Utah for Sexton and just try again. 

We would need a big man in return for Capela. 

 

[terrell]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

To me, there is only three players who make sense on this team

Trae

Hunter 

Okongwu 

Trae because he's a 1st option who is an elite playmaker and by himself make you a good offense.

Hunter because every team needs a big wing who can guard 1-4, shoot 3s at a decent clip, score on 3 levels and draw fouls. 

Okongwu because he's a switchable big who can guard smalls and bigs, rebounds well per36 and can protect the rim. 

Those three,  I can build around. 

Griffin as well. Bogi to a small degree.

The rest, I can't. 

JC can only guard one position and if you limit his touches which we have been doing year after year, you make him ineffective. 

Capela is anti gravity. He always will make it hard to build around. I keep saying. We gotta upgrade that position. 

With PF, move Okongwu there pretty much solves a lot of issues if we have the right personnel. I keep saying this but man, I really really want KAT. Having KAT and putting him next to OO would turn our offense into a juggernaut and give us enough defense to boot. 

Murray honestly is a bad trade. I would honestly offer him and JC to Minnesota for KAT and Anderson. While he helps our defense, we could get more offensively just starting Bogi and when Griffin develops, Griffin. 

Honestly, if the wheels fall off for the Wolves where they are just play in good, we need to call them and offer Murray and JC for KAT and Kyle Anderson. Trade Clint to Utah for Sexton and just try again. 

 

Hawks need to do something thats for dang sure.. This squad aint it...IMO

But we need to keep CC.Especially if we moved Murray..

Edited November 28, 2022 by terrell

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Hawks need to do something thats for dang sure.. This squad aint it...IMO

Its not a bad squad when healthy. It's the highlight factory Hawks when healthy. 4-7 seed. Not a serious threat. They got some good pieces but that Murray trade was a mistake. He's so valuable, he still worth a lot in terms of trades. Atlanta can use him to trade with Minnesota to get KAT

Atlanta needs an elite offensive 5 more than anything else. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

28 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Really? How can you say that when we haven't even played good basketball yet? We haven't seen the best version of the Hawks yet.

The big thing about the people who think that we're 1st round and done, is that they don't trust Trae as the star of the team . . . despite Trae being the main reason why we got to the EC Finals 2 years ago.

I would say "make it make sense", but things are always chaotic when the Hawks lose games.

 

The game changer in each of the past 2 seasons, has been the return of Bogi off from injury.

2020 - 21:  Hawks are 14 - 20 before his return.  Hawks finish the season 21 - 11

2021 - 22:  Hawks are 21 - 25 before his return.  Hawks finish the season 23 - 14

[terrell]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Its not a bad squad when healthy. It's the highlight factory Hawks when healthy. 4-7 seed. Not a serious threat. They got some good pieces but that Murray trade was a mistake. He's so valuable, he still worth a lot in terms of trades. Atlanta can use him to trade with Minnesota to get KAT

Atlanta needs an elite offensive 5 more than anything else. 

Wolves have DLo and his contract already.. Why would theytrade for Murray knowing you have to max him soon? 

[NBASupes]

Atlanta New starting lineup if it's the ideal squad is

Trae/Aaron

Bogi/Griffin

Hunter/Anderson

Okongwu/JJ

KAT/KO/Kessler

This would fix our fit issues to an optimal level. 

KAT is an very good paint protector but a below average rim protector. Okongwu would make his life easier defensively 

Our defense would be middle of the pack at best but our offense would be elite again and that gives us the best chance to win. 

Just now, terrell said:

Wolves have DLo and his contract already.. Why would theytrade for Murray knowing you have to max him soon? 

D'Lo is expiring this year. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

52 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

61 points in the 1st. 122 est

38 points in the 2nd. 76 est

17 points in the 4th quarter. Disgusting 

The bad 4th quarters + losses after we had the lead in the 4th, is what got LP fired.

We'll see if this trend continues.

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The big thing about the people who think that we're 1st round and done, is that they don't trust Trae as the star of the team . . . despite Trae being the main reason why we got to the EC Finals 2 years ago.

I would say "make it make sense", but things are always chaotic when the Hawks lose games.

 

The game changer in each of the past 2 seasons, has been the return of Bogi off from injury.

2020 - 21:  Hawks are 14 - 20 before his return.  Hawks finish the season 21 - 11

2021 - 22:  Hawks are 21 - 25 before his return.  Hawks finish the season 23 - 14

Main reason was CC too... Trae tried to shoot us out of game 7 in Philly.. Huerter saved us....

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The big thing about the people who think that we're 1st round and done, is that they don't trust Trae as the star of the team . . . despite Trae being the main reason why we got to the EC Finals 2 years ago.

I would say "make it make sense", but things are always chaotic when the Hawks lose games.

 

The game changer in each of the past 2 seasons, has been the return of Bogi off from injury.

2020 - 21:  Hawks are 14 - 20 before his return.  Hawks finish the season 21 - 11

2021 - 22:  Hawks are 21 - 25 before his return.  Hawks finish the season 23 - 14

I trust Trae as our best player, it's what's around Trae that matters and that's how we got to the ECF and also how we got whooped in the 1st round by the Heat.

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Its not a bad squad when healthy. It's the highlight factory Hawks when healthy. 4-7 seed. Not a serious threat. They got some good pieces but that Murray trade was a mistake. He's so valuable, he still worth a lot in terms of trades. Atlanta can use him to trade with Minnesota to get KAT

Atlanta needs an elite offensive 5 more than anything else. 

I don't really agree with this.  I think Murray was a really nice add. 

I get that his fit with Capela is somewhat dubious, but I don't think it's bad.  Defensively, the fit is great and Murrays rebounding helps a ton.  Offensively, we just need more movement.  We don't even come close to forcing defensive errors.  We work harder than any team in the league right now for every bucket and it's painful to watch.  Trae's elite playmaking and vision is hiding how horrendous our offense would be with a replacement level PG.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

52 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

And yet another night where I don’t see a single back cut from the Hawks. Those usually do okay against zone smh.

Nate obviously needs an “offensive guru” but y’all can have D’Antoni.  His fast pace will lead to a lot of transition opportunities for the opposition with Trae on the floor.  An easy way to rank 30th.  I think a middling pace is best if you’re going to have Trae, just need way more ball and man movement.  

The type of makeup your players have to have to play that style is a totally different topic I won’t get into lol.

Speaking of back cuts ( and you might see this highlight later ), Ja Morant gets the ball on the wing, and passes it to a big at the top of the 3 point arc.  As soon as Morant passes the ball, he cuts toward the lane and the big immediately passes it to Morant.

Morant does a 360 layup into 3 Knick defenders, that got blocked.  But as he was coming down, he caught his own rebound, quickly went back up, and scored the basket.

I agree on D'Antoni.  He's never won anything either, despite his offensive brilliance.

[NBASupes]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

I don't really agree with this.  I think Murray was a really nice add. 

I get that his fit with Capela is somewhat dubious, but I don't think it's bad.  Defensively, the fit is great and Murrays rebounding helps a ton.  Offensively, we just need more movement.  We don't even come close to forcing defensive errors.  We work harder than any team in the league right now for every bucket and it's painful to watch.  Trae's elite playmaking and vision is hiding how horrendous our offense would be with a replacement level PG.

Their fit on D is why we are winning games but offensively, is where I am worried and I don't see an easy solution and we can't win big with them and we all know it. 

Murray is clearly a nice add. His WAR is 2.0. He's worth his price tag but if we are building around him and Trae. We aren't winning shit. 

[terrell]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Their fit on D is why we are winning games but offensively, is where I am worried and I don't see an easy solution and we can't win big with them and we all know it. 

Murray is clearly a nice add. His WAR is 2.0. He's worth his price tag but if we are building around him and Trae. We aren't winning shit. 

How can we see it but our GM's cant? Im starting to think the trade was all on Trae the GM...He really wanted Murray and they appeased him..  Hopefully it works out.. If not they better move Murray before extending him.. (doubtful. Its what we do)

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by terrell

[TheNorthCydeRises]

No time to sulk over this loss.  We have Joel-zilla in 22 hours in Philly.

Maybe this is what Clint was resting up for.

[NBASupes]

The two trades this offseason that didn't make much sense to me.

The Murray trade and the Gobert trade. The Murray trade basically kills our biggest strength which is spacing and shooting. Idiots on this board and even some in the Hawks org dumbasses were like, we need another ball handler for Trae. I was like, that's not that important. The biggest issue is Atlanta don't got a single big who can create his own shot and score in the post at will and just able to be a nightmare to the D. Atlanta is a 1/5 PnR team but if all the bigs can do is finish, I ain't really gotta pay attention to them unless they in a PnR. If they in the post, I know I can hold my own. 

Murray fixed several issues. He can guard PGs so Hunter didn't have to do that anymore. That's been critical this year on D. He also can create for himself. But his creating for others really only works when his shooting is decent whereas Trae's works no matter what. Murray also creates issues with his lack of range and his PnR playmaking skills is average at best. He uses the PnR for his own offense more times than not but teams know that so they just crowd the lane which f*cks us up. 

Murray value would be critical if we had him at PG full time and we had Bogi at the 2 with Hunter at the 3. This is why I think Bogi is now a critical piece which he wasn't last year. I think he could change our D for sure. 

Gobert been special on D for MIN but you basically take away KAT best ability, paint protection when he's at the 4 and make him a switchable 4 which he clearly isn't. He can only defend 5s but even that's limited as his post D is merely average. Basically you turn him into an average defensive 4. Makes no sense. Offensively, it's worse. Spacing is terrible. You now limit his post impact and now it's harder for guys like Ant to attack. It just made no sense to me. 

Both teams need to make trades but neither really got trades that make sense other than the obvious involving impact players. 

Murray

Forbes

Ant

JC

Gobert is probably the best defense in the NBA. They also got the spacing too and Gobert is one of the best screen setters in the NBA. Touches will be plenty and the Wolves should be one of the best teams in the West after this trade. 

 

4 minutes ago, terrell said:

How can we see it but our GM's cant? I knew it would be a tough fit offensively

I think they saw it could happen but Atlanta didn't have many chances to make a clear upgrade which Murray was just that. Honestly, we can't get KAT without trading a stud like Murray. 

We been trying to trade JC for value and no one has bit.

Edited November 28, 2022 by NBASupes