Official Game Thread: heat at Hawks

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't really agree with this.  I think Murray was a really nice add. 

I get that his fit with Capela is somewhat dubious, but I don't think it's bad.  Defensively, the fit is great and Murrays rebounding helps a ton.  Offensively, we just need more movement.  We don't even come close to forcing defensive errors.  We work harder than any team in the league right now for every bucket and it's painful to watch.  Trae's elite playmaking and vision is hiding how horrendous our offense would be with a replacement level PG.

My question is what should the offense be with Murray and Trae on court together? Cuz them trading off who is going to dribble for 15 seconds and then take a shot or pass isn't working. It's like we're playing 4 on 5 when both are in the game. How do we create an offense utilizing both players? 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

My question is what should the offense be with Murray and Trae on court together? Cuz them trading off who is going to dribble for 15 seconds and then take a shot or pass isn't working. It's like we're playing 4 on 5 when both are in the game. How do we create an offense utilizing both players? 

I really just want an offensive minded coach because they need to figure out how to get the most out of our offensive possessions. It seems like we are best when forcing turnovers but when the defense isn't giving up any, especially live ball turnovers, we are stuck and it's crazy because we had the best half court offense in the NBA last year when healthy and now we suck 

[Plainview1981]

When is someone going to fire Schlenk? Nothing he does works.

This core sucks.

[JayBirdHawk]

34 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Cuz them trading off who is going to dribble for 15 seconds and then take a shot or pass isn't working

Maybe Nate should call an actual NBA play? 

[terrell]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Maybe Nate should call an actual NBA play? 

We’ve played progressively worse over the past 8 or so games. Kind of like tonight. We got worse by the quarter. I don’t think Nate has a clue on what to do.

But I will give him credit for playing with the lineups and minutes. I’m cool with him throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks. It means that he’s actually trying and thinking of which and what button to press to yield better results.

Edited November 28, 2022 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

No Adjustment on Offense!

No Adjustment on Defense!

What a joke! 

[JayBirdHawk]

23 minutes ago, terrell said:

We’ve played progressively worse over the past 8 or so games. Kind of like tonight. We got worse by the quarter. I don’t think Nate has a clue on what to do.

But I will give him credit for playing with the lineups and minutes. I’m cool with him throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks. It means that he’s actually trying and thinking of which and what button to press to yield better results.

I'm not giving him jack. 

Playing different lineups sure, but no difference in how the offense is run.

Clint was out, so he had no choice. Still played a 9man rotation.

Murray plus Bench at the start of 4th quarters keep loosing leads/ground, but he's done ZERO to alter those lineups.

Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result - INSANITY.

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

My question is what should the offense be with Murray and Trae on court together? Cuz them trading off who is going to dribble for 15 seconds and then take a shot or pass isn't working. It's like we're playing 4 on 5 when both are in the game. How do we create an offense utilizing both players? 

This isn't so difficult a thing to figure out, IMO.  Both of these guys draw attention when they touch the ball.  One has to facilitate, the other has to assume the role of SG.  We have to read the defense and MAKE them react.  IOW, we HAVE TO MOVE THE DAMN BALL:

Moving the ball forces the defense to scramble and recover.  Notice at the end of each of these plays is a wide open look.  If you give Trae looks like that, he will bury 3s all game.  I'm confident Murry would too and if not, he could take a few dribbles and hit the mid range against single coverage.  Being a PG, he could also find a cutter, hit one of the bigs on a lob, or make the extra pass to a shooter.

In no universe are you going to get the most out of players who excel at making plays at the basket without shooters.  We need shooters and we need guys in position to shoot AFTER the dribble penetration.  There is no way to do any of this without perimeter threats.  Trae is an amazing shooter.  Dre and Collins are (usually) better than average.  Murray is good enough.  Personally, I would like to see another sniper in the starting lineup in addition to better motion in the offense.

Few more points...

We've been driving the ball basically with no kick out.  The defense has us scouted and we're making their job easier.  Whoever is attacking the paint (Trae, Dre, Hunter) has to be able to read the defense and know when to put it up or kick it out...and the ball (and our guys) has to move until someone is open.

Secondly, it all starts with Trae.  He can score at will.  The ball needs to be in his hands, he needs to attack, and he needs to look for his shot.  We go as he goes.  If he's not on, we should be switching it up to Murray and we should use him off ball for CNS.

Lastly, I get the dual headed PG stagger...  But it can't be so static that Trae or DJM is sitting on the bench during critical comeback runs.  Sure, if the run started right after one of them goes to the bench.  But Nate has to recognize that we're making a run and within the next 3-4 minutes, his static rotation will happen anyway.  Bring the firepower back.  The defense should have to contend with both of these guys as much as possible.

[StonedDogs]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Trae needs a guard who is a PDS guard. Bogi is one. Kevin was one but sadly, defense will only be average at best with that tandem and that's with Gobert and Okongwu. On average, you will have the WOAT defense. Hopefully AJ develops and fills that role. 

Its almost sad we have to build to Trae strengths. 

MF cant play defense its 5 on 4

We have to hope for someone to step up and bail him. 

He's about to be on his 3rd coach.

Hard to imagine We're gonna win a title. We've seen the team who has won

[hylndr11]

1 hour ago, Plainview1981 said:

When is someone going to fire Schlenk? Nothing he does works.

This core sucks.

Hate to tell y'all, it ain't schlenk

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, LongTimeFan said:

Why do I still not feel comfortable?

Cuz you’ve been a Hawks fan for a long a$$ time  

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, LongTimeFan said:

That was fast ...

 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

not Nate's son.

The guy is absolutely positively the est assistant coach in the history of the game. Talk about not earning your job. I’m sorry that title was handed to him by Nate who needs to be kicked out sooner than later.  F trading players get Nate and his lil rugrat the hell outta dodge!

[QuantumHawkz]

No set plays.....No ball movement and poor inside defense. I'll be very surprised if Nate is coaching after All Star break if the team is below .500

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Oh. I agree. 

You talk to Nathan lately about fixing this crap, ?

If we asked nicely would you change your name? 

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

To me, there is only three players who make sense on this team

Trae

Hunter 

Okongwu 

Trae because he's a 1st option who is an elite playmaker and by himself make you a good offense.

Hunter because every team needs a big wing who can guard 1-4, shoot 3s at a decent clip, score on 3 levels and draw fouls. 

Okongwu because he's a switchable big who can guard smalls and bigs, rebounds well per36 and can protect the rim. 

Those three,  I can build around. 

Griffin as well. Bogi to a small degree.

The rest, I can't. 

JC can only guard one position and if you limit his touches which we have been doing year after year, you make him ineffective. 

Capela is anti gravity. He always will make it hard to build around. I keep saying. We gotta upgrade that position. 

With PF, move Okongwu there pretty much solves a lot of issues if we have the right personnel. I keep saying this but man, I really really want KAT. Having KAT and putting him next to OO would turn our offense into a juggernaut and give us enough defense to boot. 

Murray honestly is a bad trade. I would honestly offer him and JC to Minnesota for KAT and Anderson. While he helps our defense, we could get more offensively just starting Bogi and when Griffin develops, Griffin. 

Honestly, if the wheels fall off for the Wolves where they are just play in good, we need to call them and offer Murray and JC for KAT and Kyle Anderson. Trade Clint to Utah for Sexton and just try again. 

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

The two trades this offseason that didn't make much sense to me.

The Murray trade and the Gobert trade. The Murray trade basically kills our biggest strength which is spacing and shooting. Idiots on this board and even some in the Hawks org dumbasses were like, we need another ball handler for Trae. I was like, that's not that important. The biggest issue is Atlanta don't got a single big who can create his own shot and score in the post at will and just able to be a nightmare to the D. Atlanta is a 1/5 PnR team but if all the bigs can do is finish, I ain't really gotta pay attention to them unless they in a PnR. If they in the post, I know I can hold my own. 

Murray fixed several issues. He can guard PGs so Hunter didn't have to do that anymore. That's been critical this year on D. He also can create for himself. But his creating for others really only works when his shooting is decent whereas Trae's works no matter what. Murray also creates issues with his lack of range and his PnR playmaking skills is average at best. He uses the PnR for his own offense more times than not but teams know that so they just crowd the lane which f*cks us up. 

Murray value would be critical if we had him at PG full time and we had Bogi at the 2 with Hunter at the 3. This is why I think Bogi is now a critical piece which he wasn't last year. I think he could change our D for sure. 

Gobert been special on D for MIN but you basically take away KAT best ability, paint protection when he's at the 4 and make him a switchable 4 which he clearly isn't. He can only defend 5s but even that's limited as his post D is merely average. Basically you turn him into an average defensive 4. Makes no sense. Offensively, it's worse. Spacing is terrible. You now limit his post impact and now it's harder for guys like Ant to attack. It just made no sense to me. 

Both teams need to make trades but neither really got trades that make sense other than the obvious involving impact players. 

Murray

Forbes

Ant

JC

Gobert is probably the best defense in the NBA. They also got the spacing too and Gobert is one of the best screen setters in the NBA. Touches will be plenty and the Wolves should be one of the best teams in the West after this trade. 

 

I think they saw it could happen but Atlanta didn't have many chances to make a clear upgrade which Murray was just that. Honestly, we can't get KAT without trading a stud like Murray. 

We been trying to trade JC for value and no one has bit.

Believe or not you lost me 14 different times on this one freakin post. I don’t know whether to kick my couch , take a deep breath ‍ or what… 

 

I’m so lost ..

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Upgrade

Murray 

 

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

. I keep saying this but man, I really really want KAT.

[Spud2nique]

One night our front court stinks it up the next our backcourt. Trae and Murray combined for 28% from the field. Ya that’s not gonna cut it.

We don’t score the ball at times during the game when it matters. We need to understand situational scoring, and Nate needs to learn how to coach.

Can somebody tell me how Nate is 6th or whatever he is in NBA history at coaching. He’s mediocre at best.

He had 1/2 good season and a playoff run with us and Schlenk got sprung on him.

This team might be done listening to Nate.

 

We are a very mediocre team right now that needs a spark.

I still want CROWDER!!! 
 

And now I really want Nate out. 
 

Honestly rather change coaches than players because I still think we have something here but we need somebody to design some plays and teach these kids how to win. Nate isn’t the one.