Official Game Thread: heat at Hawks

[BangHolman]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Snyder would be nice.  Our roster is not terribly unlike Jazz with a touch less shooting, but I think he has the creativity and offensive focus to make us elite on that end of the floor, even as constructed.  Atkinson would be nice too.  I think you have to make a coaching change before making any drastic roster moves.  In my opinion, it's really hard to tell just how flawed the roster is with Nate at the helm.

I like this sentiment. Get a coach in and let him see what the roster looks like to him, and go from there. It's like any restructuring, no one wants the job completed and then be asked to manage it. Let them be a part of the process. 

[Bonkers]

38 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

$39 million and rising for the weakest player in the league with a considerably lower eFG% than Justin Holliday yet allowing him to hold a career usage higher than Lebron and Michael f@&kin Jordan.  I’m done y’all.

[Sothron]

28 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I don't know if you guys know this.. but based on logic...

we probably floated Bogi's name this summer for trade and other teams were like nah... Damaged goods and we shipped off Kevon.

Bogi will be a Hawk til his contract is up and at the same time, I don't know if Bogi will ever be better than 75%.

 

They tried to trade Bogi. The fear around the NBA is that he has a degenerative knee condition. He's not going anywhere. It is exactly why the FO was forced by Ressler to trade Kevin instead so he could avoid paying the luxury tax.

[Wretch]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The Lineups say that it actually HAS been working.  It's just that people hate the "take turns" offense.  

Trae + Dejounte have been a positive on the floor together.

Trae's best 2-man partner has been Dejounte:

It is very rare that I find myself disagreeing with you (can't even recall a time), and I'm not disagreeing here.  Though I do have to clarify my position on Trae/DJM "taking turns." I firmly believe that we're not going to win much of anything without ISO/PNR.  However, there's an answer for that and we see it night in and night out.  We have to make an adjustment.  So, I don't believe the offense is bad as much as believe that it's incomplete. 

I don't think we're a better team without the ball in Trae's hands.  If we were to move to a motion offense, I feel like we'd be no better than we are now.  We would sacrifice both the elite ISO threat that Trae is AND the benefit of his court vision/passing.  Not to talk in circles, but again...the defense is going to force something/someone else to beat us.  

I believe our bench is underperforming, but I've seen them do some really good things.  Especially earlier in the season.  So, I don't know if I would say they're just substandard subs...  I do know that this offense isn't doing them any favors, especially when we stagger the PG minutes so rigid.  Ultimately, it's hard for me to talk about upgrades when I don't think we're seeing the best version of this team together.  One thing I do know for a Stone Cold Steve Austin fact - if our game is in the paint/at the basket, there has got to be shooters, ball movement, and player movement to punish the defense.

[bleachkit]

52 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

$39 million and rising for the weakest player in the league with a considerably lower eFG% than Justin Holliday yet allowing him to hold a career usage higher than Lebron and Michael f@&kin Jordan.  I’m done y’all.

Was the front office not supposed to give Trae a max? Is he the ideal superstar? Obviously not for several different reasons. But if you don't pay your guys, who are you going to get instead?

[Spud2nique]

Sorry Soth this season is taking a toll on me early. I mean, if we didn't have good players that’s one thing but we have the players and are underachieving big time. Im sorry you can’t be 11-9 with this roster with or without Bogi. We should be 15-5 or 14-6. Not 11-9.

 

ps I love that teddy bear give him a kiss for me. 

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

I get this sentiment, but I don’t really see how we’d have been better off keeping Gallo and Kev over Bogi. 
 

Gallo is old and injury prone, and his injury this offseason backs up the decision not to resign. 
 

Kevin and Bogi are redundant 3 and no D players. It would’ve cost us to get rid of Bogi, and Kevin got us assets. Watching Kevin play Atlanta was a good reminder of why his loss wasn’t a huge problem. 

 

AJ will surpass all of them if given the opportunity they’ve had. He’s no Thabo on D, but he can and will be better than any of the other options here. And I think he could get us buckets as well or better. 

Keeping Gallo would definitely have been a mistake. 

On the business end of things, it's hard for me to tell the owner he needs to pay tax.  Was the analysis on Bogdanovic injury wrong?  The organization communicated we should expect Bogi back at the start of the season.  The Huerter move looks quite differently with Bogi and AJ playing that role well.  The owner would be paying for a roster spot in Huerter he didn't need and missing out on a 1st round pick asset and a huge tax payout.  I honestly can't blame Tony, but it looks like a big mistake right now.  This is hindsight 20/20 bias to me.     

I don't follow the entire NBA.  I really expected Kaminsky to be a true backup stretch PF/C.  If Kaminsky was playable that would be a perfect fit for the front court. 

I'm most excited about a new head coach rumor.  Save this season if the right guy is available.  Nate is a 45 win coach it seems.      

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Arbor day, flag day,

[Spud2nique]

29 minutes ago, Sothron said:

They tried to trade Bogi. The fear around the NBA is that he has a degenerative knee condition. He's not going anywhere. It is exactly why the FO was forced by Ressler to trade Kevin instead so he could avoid paying the luxury tax.

My face is involuntarily twitching as I read this…I’ll be ok I’m sure it’ll pass…

[Spud2nique]

I’m not a stat guy but @benhillboy or any of the squawk stat team know if we’ve collectively shot this bad to start a season as a team before? I mean we’ve had bad starts record wise but our outside shooting reminds me of the times when Antoine Walker and Al Harrington were hoisting up shots and we won like 13 games. 
 

My guess would be 2004-2006.. with Smoove Childress Antoine and the boys.

 

2018 maybe with Trae hoisting up shots as a rookie to get a feel.

 

If I had to guess I’d say this is the 3rd worst start in 20 years.

 

We should sign this guy too! He would fit in with what’s going on with us.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Good to see you panic before the 25 game mark,

@sturt

[JeffS17]

27 minutes ago, Wretch said:

It is very rare that I find myself disagreeing with you (can't even recall a time), and I'm not disagreeing here.  Though I do have to clarify my position on Trae/DJM "taking turns." I firmly believe that we're not going to win much of anything without ISO/PNR.  However, there's an answer for that and we see it night in and night out.  We have to make an adjustment.  So, I don't believe the offense is bad as much as believe that it's incomplete. 

I don't think we're a better team without the ball in Trae's hands.  If we were to move to a motion offense, I feel like we'd be no better than we are now.  We would sacrifice both the elite ISO threat that Trae is AND the benefit of his court vision/passing.  Not to talk in circles, but again...the defense is going to force something/someone else to beat us.  

I believe our bench is underperforming, but I've seen them do some really good things.  Especially earlier in the season.  So, I don't know if I would say they're just substandard subs...  I do know that this offense isn't doing them any favors, especially when we stagger the PG minutes so rigid.  Ultimately, it's hard for me to talk about upgrades when I don't think we're seeing the best version of this team together.  One thing I do know for a Stone Cold Steve Austin fact - if our game is in the paint/at the basket, there has got to be shooters, ball movement, and player movement to punish the defense.

I think the issue with the lack of ball movement and player movement is how easy it is to defend and scheme against.  We cannot beat a high school zone playing like we are right now.  Even if our starting lineup is playing well or we play well with DJ+Trae on the court, the lack of movement makes our bench players kind of useless.  They don't get involved, defenses can sell out on DJ/Trae, and it's too easy to force the ball out of Trae or DJs hands if the other isn't on the court.  We need some minimal level of playmaking from the wings or even our bigs (when was the last time you saw an inside out pass for an open 3?) to be successful.  I think it's possible to get there but it's clearly not being coached or encouraged right now.  Every touch from JC/Clint/Dre is tunnel vision on scoring and defenses can easily collapse and not worry about kick outs

[benhillboy]

30 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Was the front office not supposed to give Trae a max? Is he the ideal superstar? Obviously not for several different reasons. But if you don't pay your guys, who are you going to get instead?

I would’ve never dreamed of drafting Trae nor remained in a GM role where the owner made the decision but if I inherited him letting him walk would’ve been easy as pie.  Before that he would’ve been traded as soon as Adam Silver could say “and the Hawks draft Tyrese Haliburton from Iowa State.”  
 

His shooting, assist, steals, and positioning versatility ceiling was quite easy to see in his college numbers and evaluation.    He was 20 points above his teams offesnive rating and 2 points below its defesnive.  I could look at Trae’s college ratings and tell he was most likely fraudulent.  5 over Oklamhom’s offense and 2 under its defense.

Pay attention to 100 possession ratings people.

Edited November 28, 2022 by benhillboy

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

I think the issue with the lack of ball movement

Just swing it. We’ve seen where they swing it and that works. We are taking turns with Trae and DM and playing directly into the hands of the opposition as they know what’s coming and scheme appropriately for it. Yet, Nate continues to allow it every game.

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Every touch from JC/Clint/Dre is tunnel vision on scoring and defenses can easily collapse and not worry about kick outs

Yup.

[Final_quest]

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Just swing it. We’ve seen where they swing it and that works. We are taking turns with Trae and DM and playing directly into the hands of the opposition as they know what’s coming and scheme appropriately for it. Yet, Nate continues to allow it every game.

I see Trae and DJM taking turns, but I also see guys passing up shots and opportunities.  Why AJ is so refreshing to see.  He looks to shoot or make a couple moves to see if he CAN get a shot worth taking.  

It might be just me, but multiple times a game guys are passing to Trae and DJM with 5-6 seconds on the clock and forcing them to create something out of nothing.  Hunter started out the first half with some drives/shots.  

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I see Trae and DJM taking turns, but I also see guys passing up shots and opportunities.  Why AJ is so refreshing to see.  He looks to shoot or make a couple moves to see if he CAN get a shot worth taking.  

It might be just me, but multiple times a game guys are passing to Trae and DJM with 5-6 seconds on the clock and forcing them to create something out of nothing.  Hunter started out the first half with some drives/shots.  

Hunter is notorious for passing up wide open catch n shoot threes for a shake and bake mid ranger, or jab step contested three.

[Plainview1981]

4 hours ago, terrell said:

Call me old school or whatever, but I think it's insane to construct an NBA team w/o having at least 1 person who can post up and get a needed basket in a half court set when needed. We have no matchup advantage against anyone, xcpt Trae (on offense)! No shooting in the starting 5. Only 2 players that can dribble without tripping over their feet. No passing at all besides the guards(And thats usually at the end of the shotclock)... What is Our identity?

I'm sorry but I feel like $$$ is being stolen from Ressler.... We're being Fed a Defective product... don't let the occasional wins cloud your judgement... snap out of denial...We need a competent GM along with his Coach of choice to implement the master plan!!!

Schlenk and Nate? No thank you.....Ill start attending games again when at least one of these clowns are gone.. Preferrably BOTH...

As bad as Nate is most of the time, you cant blame him for this shitty ass roster construction..

The loss of Gallo hurt. He provided some post up ability, could hit the three and spread the floor and would be useful when Murray slashes to the basket. 

[Plainview1981]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Huh? Gallo has been injured all year what are you talking about? You want Gallo sitting on the sidelines so you can stare at him? That’s one thing but he wasn’t gonna help $hit on the court let’s not say things that aren’t true.

I mean in theory of course. I get that he is hurt.

The point is that this team needs shooters. I get that Gallo cost too much money and is now hurt, but the Holidays were not going to be able to fill the shooting role. You can't lose this type of shooting and not suffer.

 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Snyder would be nice.  Our roster is not terribly unlike Jazz with a touch less shooting, but I think he has the creativity and offensive focus to make us elite on that end of the floor, even as constructed.  Atkinson would be nice too.  I think you have to make a coaching change before making any drastic roster moves.  In my opinion, it's really hard to tell just how flawed the roster is with Nate at the helm.

I don't like any of the structure guys. That's asking for a disaster to happen. That's why I like D'Antoni. He's a system guy but it revolves around PnR. These motion offense guys will flop badly in Atlanta and ruin Trae reputation 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I don't like any of the structure guys. That's asking for a disaster to happen. That's why I like D'Antoni. He's a system guy but it revolves around PnR. These motion offense guys will flop badly in Atlanta and ruin Trae reputation 

Yes.  I agree almost completely although I think D'Antoni wouldn't necessarily be the right move at this point.  I assume he's done coaching.