Official Game Thread: Hornets at Hawks

[Sothron]

24 minutes ago, LongTimeFan said:

The announcers said that same thing immediately about the "high five = incidental contact/no foul."  They knew it right away... but the refs didn't after a long period of review?  No one suggested that rule indicating no violation? 
We got screwed.
But, JJ should have never gotten that close, and the game should have never been that close.   

You know what really pisses me off?

Years ago the NBA FORCED the Hawks to replay the last several minutes of a game because Shaq on the Heat was ruled to have fouled out when he only had 5 fouls. We won the game the first time. The NBA forced the Hawks to replay...and we lost. 

Not once have I ever seen the NBA do that before or since. If that cheating ref didn't make that bogus call then we win that game. Period. If the NBA really cared about making right calls matter they would force the Hornets to replay us from that point to the end of the game. 

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

You know what really pisses me off?

Years ago the NBA FORCED the Hawks to replay the last several minutes of a game because Shaq on the Heat was ruled to have fouled out when he only had 5 fouls. We won the game the first time. The NBA forced the Hawks to replay...and we lost. 

Not once have I ever seen the NBA do that before or since. If that cheating ref didn't make that bogus call then we win that game. Period. If the NBA really cared about making right calls matter they would force the Hornets to replay us from that point to the end of the game. 

They should strike the free throws and give us the damn game.

[warcore]

3 hours ago, ShooterSays said:

Mother ******

Bob quoted that exact rule when it happened but we couldn't challenge cuz we had to waste it on some other zebra BS. 

[warcore]

@Sothron brings up a great point to show how biased the NBA really is. They will do it to help Miami and Shaq get better playoff seeding, but hell no would they do that for the Hawks. 

They would probably do it for BOS and LAL too.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

You are not a troll. Never called you one or said you were.

No.. We are clear who the trolls are.  Just trying to place the troll sympathizers. 

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, LongTimeFan said:

The announcers said that same thing immediately about the "high five = incidental contact/no foul."  They knew it right away... but the refs didn't after a long period of review?  No one suggested that rule indicating no violation? 
We got screwed.
But, JJ should have never gotten that close, and the game should have never been that close.   

Yeah... I heard the same thing.   It was a bad call... The refs said " we just shrug our shoulders and move on I guess??"

There is no retribution for a game losing call. 

[MarylandHawk]

8 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

It's pretty obvious but posters continue to blame others. None of this is new. Trae has played hero ball ever since he has been in the league but his fans have to scape goat someone else. They are willing throw the entire team, coaching staff and fans under the bus to save this dude from criticism. It is so strange

Because he is our hero. Deal with it. 

[MarylandHawk]

Here is my take on the game. Everyone wants to pile on Trae for this loss and that is great. He is the best player on the team, when we lose he should take the lion-share of the blame. When we win, he will deflect to others. What I saw is that Nate did not rotate the lineup properly. He was hoping to get a big lead enough to sit his starters, when he did, he inexplicably kept his starters playing their regular minutes. When the game got close again, he didn’t want to take them out. On the second night if a back to back, with a significant rotation piece in Bogi not playing, he kept Trae in way too long. His legs were heavy as all of his misses late were short. Like others have said Trae resorted to try to bury them with the long ball but he didn’t have the legs. Also, Plumlee abused our bigs. He had the best game of his career stat wise but that didn’t even tell the full story. He out hustled and out smarted ours bigs tremendously.  Lastly, after all of that we still should have won the game but lost due to the referees. Nate should have been prepared to play our bench extended minutes so they could match Charlotte energy because talent wasn’t the issue. 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

Here is my take on the game. Everyone wants to pile on Trae for this loss and that is great. He is the best player on the team, when we lose he should take the lion-share of the blame. When we win, he will deflect to others. What I saw is that Nate did not rotate the lineup properly. He was hoping to get a big lead enough to sit his starters, when he did, he inexplicably kept his starters playing their regular minutes. When the game got close again, he didn’t want to take them out. On the second night if a back to back, with a significant rotation piece in Bogi not playing, he kept Trae in way too long. His legs were heavy as all of his misses late were short. Like others have said Trae resorted to try to bury them with the long ball but he didn’t have the legs. Also, Plumlee abused our bigs. He had the best game of his career stat wise but that didn’t even tell the full story. He out hustled and out smarted ours bigs tremendously.  Lastly, after all of that we still should have won the game but lost due to the referees. Nate should have been prepared to play our bench extended minutes so they could match Charlotte energy because talent wasn’t the issue. 

There was no doubt that the whole team was feeling the effect of 6 games in 9 days and the 2nd night of a B2B.   Context is missed by a lot of our people.   That is because a lot of the squawkers think that this is 2K and that there's no fatigue.   Nate made mistakes.  He has to learn how to stick with the hot hand.  I think that is my biggest issue with him as well as just common sense stuff like training bigs to inbound.  I'm sorry if Nate is going to use the excuse that Trae is our best passer, it points to the fact that he has never trained our players for inbounding or situational BB and that's a problem. 

Still though, people put a lot of weight on that inbound play.   We should have never been there.   Bad Calls.  Bad Basketball.. led us to that loss.   Yeah.  We were tired.   Yeah, our mental focus wasn't there.  I think it's something that will put some fire in our belly. 

 

[bleachkit]

11 hours ago, warcore said:

Bob quoted that exact rule when it happened but we couldn't challenge cuz we had to waste it on some other zebra BS. 

Teams should get two challenges. One for a call during the game, and another for an end of game situation.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Teams should get two challenges. One for a call during the game, and another for an end of game situation.

I think they should get a second if the first is successful.  

[AHF]

Guys - We are not debating who is a troll or a legit fan, etc.  People have different views and outlooks on the team but are here because they are interested in the Hawks.  I'll repeat myself by saying if you think someone is trolling  then attack the substance of their post -- don't attack the poster which includes name calling (example: calling someone a "troll" (really in any context) or "stan" as a way to suggest their view is not legitimate).

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Guys - We are not debating who is a troll or a legit fan, etc.  People have different views and outlooks on the team but are here because they are interested in the Hawks.  I'll repeat myself by saying if you think someone is trolling  then attack the substance of their post -- don't attack the poster which includes name calling (example: calling someone a "troll" (really in any context) or "stan" as a way to suggest their view is not legitimate).

We're not going to call it trolling?  However, some people are still fighting the we traded Luka for Trae fight.  Everytime we have a bad outting, they come back with the same vitriol and it's about the trade.   You saying attack the substance of the post is really saying we should go back and attack ghosts that we can do nothing about. 

How many times can we say.. That trade is done, let's move on?  I mean, we can find more creative ways to say it but it won't stop the continuous hate posts.   At some point, it stop being a different view and it becomes Hawkhate.  You can count on it from the same people after every loss... they show up with their Hawkhate.   A game thread goes from 9 pages to 17 pages because 8 pages are just Hawkhate. 

The moniker of Hawksquawk is "Atlanta Hawks community, for the fans, by the fans"  If our fandom is big enough to allow Hawkhate to exist and call it substance, shouldn't we also be big enough to call Hawkhate what it is?  In what other community is that not allowed?  In the LBGTQ community, Hate is called out.  In the Black community, Hate is called out.  In the Jewish community, Hate is called out.  However, in the Atlanta Hawks community, we allow hate to ride around under the guise of substance. 

If I'm a true Atlanta Hawks fan from let's say Dubai.. and it's my first time on the board and I see a few people Trashing everything that Trae Young does and nobody says nothing about the ongoing attack, what am I to think of this community?  

I expect that on RealGM because it's not a site dedicated to Hawks fans.  However, here.. at the HQ of Hawks fans, we just let anything go without calling a thing a thing?  As I asked a few paragraphs ago...  Where they do that at?  We are empowering those who hate the Hawks. 

 

 

 

 

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

We're not going to call it trolling?  However, some people are still fighting the we traded Luka for Trae fight.  Everytime we have a bad outting, they come back with the same vitriol and it's about the trade.   You saying attack the substance of the post is really saying we should go back and attack ghosts that we can do nothing about. 

How many times can we say.. That trade is done, let's move on?  I mean, we can find more creative ways to say it but it won't stop the continuous hate posts.   At some point, it stop being a different view and it becomes Hawkhate.  You can count on it from the same people after every loss... they show up with their Hawkhate.   A game thread goes from 9 pages to 17 pages because 8 pages are just Hawkhate. 

The moniker of Hawksquawk is "Atlanta Hawks community, for the fans, by the fans"  If our fandom is big enough to allow Hawkhate to exist and call it substance, shouldn't we also be big enough to call Hawkhate what it is?  In what other community is that not allowed?  In the LBGTQ community, Hate is called out.  In the Black community, Hate is called out.  In the Jewish community, Hate is called out.  However, in the Atlanta Hawks community, we allow hate to ride around under the guise of substance. 

If I'm a true Atlanta Hawks fan from let's say Dubai.. and it's my first time on the board and I see a few people Trashing everything that Trae Young does and nobody says nothing about the ongoing attack, what am I to think of this community?  

I expect that on RealGM because it's not a site dedicated to Hawks fans.  However, here.. at the HQ of Hawks fans, we just let anything go without calling a thing a thing?  As I asked a few paragraphs ago...  Where they do that at?  We are empowering those who hate the Hawks. 

I sympathize with your sentiment, but no matter how bad an opinion is...we can't just strike people and ignore their commentary.  It's almost what these kinds of posters are doing to us by saying "Ya'll just keep ignoring our terrible player."  I've resisted using my ignore list for years, but some of these comments are just not useful for discussion - like the "shut up and dribble" comment about DJM.  Completely insensitive and uncalled for.

[Peoriabird]

13 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

Because he is our hero. Deal with it. 

This is precisely the kind of opinions that fuels Trae's hero mentality even when it is obvious that he is not the best Hawk player in a given game.

[terrell]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

We're not going to call it trolling?  However, some people are still fighting the we traded Luka for Trae fight.  Everytime we have a bad outting, they come back with the same vitriol and it's about the trade.   You saying attack the substance of the post is really saying we should go back and attack ghosts that we can do nothing about. 

How many times can we say.. That trade is done, let's move on?  I mean, we can find more creative ways to say it but it won't stop the continuous hate posts.   At some point, it stop being a different view and it becomes Hawkhate.  You can count on it from the same people after every loss... they show up with their Hawkhate.   A game thread goes from 9 pages to 17 pages because 8 pages are just Hawkhate. 

The moniker of Hawksquawk is "Atlanta Hawks community, for the fans, by the fans"  If our fandom is big enough to allow Hawkhate to exist and call it substance, shouldn't we also be big enough to call Hawkhate what it is?  In what other community is that not allowed?  In the LBGTQ community, Hate is called out.  In the Black community, Hate is called out.  In the Jewish community, Hate is called out.  However, in the Atlanta Hawks community, we allow hate to ride around under the guise of substance. 

If I'm a true Atlanta Hawks fan from let's say Dubai.. and it's my first time on the board and I see a few people Trashing everything that Trae Young does and nobody says nothing about the ongoing attack, what am I to think of this community?  

I expect that on RealGM because it's not a site dedicated to Hawks fans.  However, here.. at the HQ of Hawks fans, we just let anything go without calling a thing a thing?  As I asked a few paragraphs ago...  Where they do that at?  We are empowering those who hate the Hawks. 

 

 

 

 

[AHF]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

We're not going to call it trolling?  However, some people are still fighting the we traded Luka for Trae fight.  Everytime we have a bad outting, they come back with the same vitriol and it's about the trade.   You saying attack the substance of the post is really saying we should go back and attack ghosts that we can do nothing about. 

If fans want to debate whether we should have done the Trae deal that is a legit topic just like if someone wanted to post about whether Marvin Williams was the right draft pick years after he was drafted.  There may be little to discuss if everyone agrees it was a bad deal.  I think that is where we reached on the Marvin Williams pick so the debate shifted at some point from "did we do the right thing in the draft" to things like "is Marvin a bust" or "are we overpaying for him" etc.  At that point where everyone just agrees, feel free to PM me if someone is spamming that on the board but I don't actually think that is what is happening.  Usually on the specific topic of whether we did the right thing by trading Luka for Trae + future pick there are some who say they prefer Trae and therefore think we got a great deal (getting the better player at a cheaper price plus a pick) and some who argue Luka is substantially better such that it was not worth it (either premised on the idea that we got Cam who was a bust or premised on the idea that Luka is so much better that even if we hadn't blown the pick on Cam it still wouldn't have been worth it or other variations).  That is a good faith disagreement on the trade and a topic for valid conversation.

Like you, I have less patience for people who make an argument and then refuse to acknowledge contrary facts but you can address that and any other substantive issue in the argument on the actual topic.  If someone doesn't post when Trae has a great game but shows up to gloat when he struggles you can point that out but it should be part of your argument and not simply calling the person a troll.  For example, if I argued that Okonwu can't rebound and showed up to celebrate or criticize when he has 4 or fewer rebounds (as has happened 8 times this year) you could call me out for failing to acknowledge the double digit rebound games, etc. and therefore misrepresenting his true rebounding prowess.  You can say that me ignoring him grabbing 13 or 20, etc. rebounds is not a valid way of looking at  things and instead I should be looking at the fact that he is 2nd on the team in rebounds per minute or that he is 2nd on the team in rebounding %, etc.  All these points can be made on the merits rather than simply saying that I am a troll. 

I legitimately don't see anything actionable as a mod other calling someone out as a troll here and so that is my focus.  Not to insulate anyone from criticism of their ideas but to keep the conversation focused on the content.

[Sothron]

Don't make the mods job any harder than it has to be. Just ignore the ones that deserve to be ignored and you'll never see their posts again...unless someone quotes them which I personally hate.

[macdaddy]

14 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Don't make the mods job any harder than it has to be. Just ignore the ones that deserve to be ignored and you'll never see their posts again...unless someone quotes them which I personally hate.

Feel like that's directed at me.   LOL.  just kidding.

[warcore]

Seriously y'all if you're going back and forth with someone getting nowhere / wasting everyone's time, just put them on ignore. It's a fantastic feature.