Official Game Thread: Hawks at Clippers

[Gray Mule]

It happened!  And, if the Hawks had lost this game, this would be the hot topic.

Refs took over the game late in the 4th quarter.  Did we suddenly become that team that couldn't make a play without getting called for a foul?  Surely looked like it, didn't it!  I suppose that the Hawks fouled more than the Clippers all game.  Check the box score for foul attempts.  Kinda one sided, isn't it.

Missed the first 3 or 4 minutes of the game, then watch the remainder.  1st quarter was close.  Hawks ran away in both the 2nd and 3rd quarter.  Note:  Didn't melt in the 3rd!  This looked like the Hawk team that all Squawk posters really want!

Back-to-back!  Hawks stay and take on the "other" LA team!  Time to win two!

[Spud2nique]

25 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Didn't melt in the 3rd!  This looked like the Hawk team that all Squawk posters really want!

Indeed. Played hard for 48 loved it. One of my fav games of the season, specially on the road, very impressive.

We really did and still do hold onto the hope that Quin’s system is kicking in more and more and players are adapting to it easier.

 

Ball movement, defense and rebounding while taking care of the rock . The formula for success.

[Mikey]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

JJ is different. He might be the first player we actually got right outside of Trae in terms of fits around Trae and he wasn't even a fit for anyone when we drafted him. That's hard work, being willing to look in the mirror and say, I ain't shit and I want to be the shit. What do I need to do and I am willing to work. JJ is that guy. He's really impressed me this year. I loved the talent out of Duke but we kicked him off the damn team. He was full of himself and to see him humble af. Man, I love this kid. 

To me, you got JJ. You got Trae. I am good with Hunter, Kobe, and Bogi off the pine. 

We just gotta figure out the 2 as a fit. Bey was a nice fit, sucks that he's out for a year. 

Murray is showing everyone that he's more impactful this year than Trae but none of that really matters if at best we are a .500 team with him at the helm. It's better he goes to a better team that gives him the keys. I came up with something like this. 

I did these three moves: 

For JC's TPE - Bogey, I couldn't find anyone else struggling that could help us and we just need someone to play 18-20MPG as Hunter can play 28-30MPG who can start. Bogey is also great at short movement so he replaces Bey to a degree and Quin has a relationship with him. He's been bad for the Knicks. 

Murray/SAC 1st for Alex Caruso/Carter/CHI 1st - Gives us a 2 guard that fits Trae. He needs a ball a tad more than I would like but he's really improved as an off-ball player. Defensively, he's exactly what we need next to Trae. Carter fills the backup PG role.

Draft: Landed Flip and Edey since we had weaknesses at the 4 and 5. 

Trae/Carter/Forrest

Caruso/Bogi/Kobe

Bogey/Hunter/(Bey)

JJ/Flip/Gueye

Edey/OO/Capela who I would like to trade. As a 3rd big, Capela is top end so I can't get mad at it. If OO is hurt, it helps to have someone like Clint. 

You can go Edey/Knecht, Edey/Shannon, Flip/Edey, etc. Getting a wing plus a 1st or swap for SAC 1st depending on the quality of the wing for Murray is the best play for us. We need a SG that fits Trae and I would prefer a vet. 

We should use JC TPE for someone like Bogey since Bey is out and Bey needs to stay. 

 

Had a good plan till you drafted Edey and started him over a much better player 

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Love the comradery, this should increase their value as a package deal when we ship them both off for Zion in July

[macdaddy]

22 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Love the comradery, this should increase their value as a package deal when we ship them both off for Zion in July

Haven't seen anyone look like they were having fun all year basically.  Maybe guys are figuring things out. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Had a good plan till you drafted Edey and started him over a much better player 

If Kessler was here, he would start over OO and Capela

If Edey is here, he would start over OO and Capela

If Clingan is here, he would start over OO and Capela

Just my take and I don't even think it's close. At the end of the day, OO isn't a starter for us, and Capela is washed. Games like this are vintage. He can go on tonight and put up another clunker.

Obviously, you think differently. 

Edited March 18 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

36 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If Kessler was here, he would start over OO and Capela

. Kessler is NOT even starting over John Collins in Utah.

[hawkman]

10 hours ago, Threezus said:

So far on the 11 game stretch since Trae went down we are giving up about 105 ppg which would have us #1 in PPG on defense in the league this year.    Compared to 121 ppg with Trae for the year.  Look i love Trae as a player and appreciate what he can do with the ball.  But that is a massive difference going from near dead last to 1st in defense over a 10+ game span.

So that decrease in opponent scoring has nothing to do with the recent (unofficial) NBA rule changes? Isn't scoring across the league down since the All Star break?

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, hawkman said:

So that decrease in opponent scoring has nothing to do with the recent (unofficial) NBA rule changes? Isn't scoring across the league down since the All Star break?

To get an idea for how meaningfully we have improved on defense, you need to control for quality of opponents and the change in how the game has been called (leading to materially lower scoring across the league).  Both clearly have had significant effects in lowering the points we give up per game during that limited sample set.  

But I think there is some legit improvement there as well which emphasizes to me how DJM and Trae don't fit very well.  With DJM at PG, the defense is upgraded at that position.  With DJM not at SG, the defense is upgraded at that position.  Two for one improvement.  I expect the defense will suffer some if Trae goes back to starting and DJM is beside him.  They are collectively too small to be really effective together on the defensive side of the ball.  (And they haven't meshed on offense to boot.  They aren't terrible together on offense but are two good offensive players sharing the ball instead of being two players who make one another better.)

[NBASupes]

40 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

. Kessler is NOT even starting over John Collins in Utah.

Kessler is not an Atlanta Hawk. Does Trae Young play for the Utah Jazz?

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Love the comradery, this should increase their value as a package deal when we ship them both off for Zion in July

.... savagery..... 

[terrell]

5 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

So do we just ignore that without Trae they are avg 108 ppg which would also be near last in the NBA? 

 

Hawks are 7th in the NBA in net rating since Trae has been out.

14th in offense and 8th in defense.

3rd in opponents fg percentage.

3rd in scoring points of to's.

8th second chance points.

5th in giving up points in the paint.

24th in giving up points off turnovers.

26th in giving up fb points.

23rd in scoring points in paint

23rd in pace.

 

If looks like the offense is surviving off of offensive rebounding and scoring of to's. Offense is kinda trash, but the defense is excellent..  lol

Edited March 18 by terrell

[terrell]

12 hours ago, Threezus said:

So far on the 11 game stretch since Trae went down we are giving up about 105 ppg which would have us #1 in PPG on defense in the league this year.    Compared to 121 ppg with Trae for the year.  Look i love Trae as a player and appreciate what he can do with the ball.  But that is a massive difference going from near dead last to 1st in defense over a 10+ game span.

Team is still bad, but much easier to watch IMO, without Trae whining all game,  hogging the ball, and cratering our defense.... 

I don't miss those 40 ft bombs that usually end up as a layup for the other team either.. lol

Edited March 18 by terrell

[macdaddy]

Good team ball movement is always fun to watch.   It just doesn't really win a lot of playoff games without elite individual offensive players. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Good team ball movement is always fun to watch.   It just doesn't really win a lot of playoff games without elite individual offensive players. 

Ball movement without making shots is hard on the eyes as well. 

[terrell]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

To get an idea for how meaningfully we have improved on defense, you need to control for quality of opponents and the change in how the game has been called (leading to materially lower scoring across the league).  Both clearly have had significant effects in lowering the points we give up per game during that limited sample set.  

But I think there is some legit improvement there as well which emphasizes to me how DJM and Trae don't fit very well.  With DJM at PG, the defense is upgraded at that position.  With DJM not at SG, the defense is upgraded at that position.  Two for one improvement.  I expect the defense will suffer some if Trae goes back to starting and DJM is beside him.  They are collectively too small to be really effective together on the defensive side of the ball.  (And they haven't meshed on offense to boot.  They aren't terrible together on offense but are two good offensive players sharing the ball instead of being two players who make one another better.)

And It's easy to forget that Saddiq Bey was another problem defensively.

 

[AtLaS]

Fun game to watch, but I'm in the camp that this season is over so i would have preferred to lose this game. 

[Threezus]

11 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Who were the 4 - 5 good teams?

Cavs, Knicks, Pels, Clippers, Orlando are pretty solid overall.    Trash teams would be Grizz, Utah, Portland and im missing 1 or 2 then  Nets are probably about our level give or take and we had them back to back. 

[Threezus]

6 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

So do we just ignore that without Trae they are avg 108 ppg which would also be near last in the NBA? 

 

My thing here would be what we get back from Trae if we trade him.  Im not moving him for scraps no chance in heck on that one.  I would need a guy coming back like Brown, Kat, AD, etc...  Either that or for a Spurs move that gave us a ton of picks back that we knew we could swap for a player like those or Ingram or zion if we wanted to get a player + keep some picks on those last 2.    But those guys would 100% help the scoring difference Trae leaves while also giving us improved defense for most of them at another position.

If we can't get a beneficial deal for Trae then he stays and we move on because as said in any scenario he's not leaving for anything less than a deal that seriously helps us to me.

[REHawksFan]

17 minutes ago, Threezus said:

My thing here would be what we get back from Trae if we trade him.  Im not moving him for scraps no chance in heck on that one.  I would need a guy coming back like Brown, Kat, AD, etc...  Either that or for a Spurs move that gave us a ton of picks back that we knew we could swap for a player like those or Ingram or zion if we wanted to get a player + keep some picks on those last 2.    But those guys would 100% help the scoring difference Trae leaves while also giving us improved defense for most of them at another position.

If we can't get a beneficial deal for Trae then he stays and we move on because as said in any scenario he's not leaving for anything less than a deal that seriously helps us to me.

So the Hawks are so much better without Trae that we are willing to trade him and you think the return could be Jaylen Brown or KAT or AD?  Make it make sense.  

I think Trae is an ELITE player.  But I know I'm in the minority on this board in that regard.  But I also know elite players don't get traded for other elite players often.  When elite players are traded, it's almost always for a discount because rarely do two elite players want to get traded at the same time and it all works out.  So by default, you don't trade elite players and get better.   

So either Trae is elite and the Hawks will get substantially worse by trading him OR Trae isn't elite and there's no way in hell you are getting Jaylen Brown or KAT or AD for him.  And you are still likely worse off with whatever players you get for the $40M salary match.

I'm not sure there's a path to getting substantially better without Trae unless it's to blow it up and start over.  And that's not likely to happen for a variety of reasons.