Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks -- GAME 2

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Didn't the Hawks lose those two games and he was guarding KG who just won the MVP award in Boston?

Come on AHF

Come on yourself.  You know that deciding a guy's career based on two games is fundamentally unsound.  If JC turns out a 25 point, 13 rebound game next outing it likewise doesn't mean he is destined for playoff stardom.  Small sample sizes can show extreme results and can't be relied on to draw large, overarching conclusions.

Telling us you think his skills aren't a good fit for the playoffs is fine to me.  Using his two game sample in a bad matchup for him to say that he can never enjoy playoff success is not.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

JC fine in the RS where you play good PF like 18 times out of 82 games in a year but in the playoffs. You likely to play them in each round. Good luck paying that. I wouldn't

SnT his ass to Toronto for Siakam

Siakam was ass in the bubble and this season as well, lol.

[benhillboy]

I think most of our 4-2 Hawks win predictions still look good.  I did think we were gonna cruise up 15 tho dammit man.   That’s so unlike this team under Nate’s short tenure I’m sure he took the blame in the lockers.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Come on yourself.  You know that deciding a guy's career based on two games is fundamentally unsound.  If JC turns out a 25 point, 13 rebound game next outing it likewise doesn't mean he is destined for playoff stardom.  Small sample sizes can show extreme results and can't be relied on to draw large, overarching conclusions.

Telling us you think his skills aren't a good fit for the playoffs is fine to me.  Using his two game sample in a bad matchup for him to say that he can never enjoy playoff success is not.

 

This has been my point for the last two years. His game doesn't fit what winning Basketball looks like. As much as Hawk fans kill Draymond Green, his skill-set fits winning Basketball. Elite defense, especially team defense and elite playmaker for a big. Now, he's gonna have to score or he going to do more harm his offense than good like Rondo but he his a defined role.

JC role was one I questioned years ago for winning Basketball. He's made major strides but his lack of size for his big and his lack of skill doesn't bode well for this environment. 

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Siakam was ass in the bubble and this season as well, lol.

Because he was their #1 option. He would be fine like Bogi as a #3 or #4 in Atlanta. He fits what we need. 

 

7'5 wingspan 

He attack with his speed and length

A lot more defensive ability and talent. He fits what we need more. 

 

JC is our Eric Bledsoe 

Edited May 27, 2021 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

This has been my point for the last two years. His game doesn't fit what winning Basketball looks like. As much as Hawk fans kill Draymond Green, his skill-set fits winning Basketball. Elite defense, especially team defense and elite playmaker for a big. Now, he's gonna have to score or he going to do more harm his offense than good like Rondo but he his a defined role.

JC role was one I questioned years ago for winning Basketball. He's made major strides but his lack of size for his big and his lack of skill doesn't bode well for this environment. 

Because he was their #1 option. He would be fine like Bogi has a #3 or #4 in Atlanta.

Well he sure got paid like a #1, seey point. Same with Bam

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Well he sure got paid like a #1, seey point. Same with Bam

He's overpaid. We can't change that. No one can

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Every PF that's very good is the worst matchup for JC

Giannis

AD

Durant

Tatum

 

He even struggles with Tobias Harris.

 

JC is pretty solid in all these matchups given that we are talking about two MVPs and a couple of first team All-NBA players.  JC has actually done extremely well against AD; way more efficient than Tatum; loses to Giannis; and ends up with both Durant and JC going off when they face each other.  Check out JC's insane TS% vs Durant.  Woah.  

Again, let's give JC more than 2 games but notably Randle's numbers are an improvement over his norm wayyyyyyyyy more than any of the people you mentioned (most of whom put up stellar numbers in their average game against all opponents). 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

JC is pretty solid in all these matchups given that we are talking about two MVPs and a couple of first team All-NBA players.  JC has actually done extremely well against AD; way more efficient than Tatum; loses to Giannis; and ends up with both Durant and JC going off when they face each other.  Check out JC's insane TS% vs Durant.  Woah.  

Again, let's give JC more than 2 games but notably Randle's numbers are an improvement over his norm wayyyyyyyyy more than any of the people you mentioned (most of whom put up stellar numbers in their average game against all opponents). 

I remember AD having his way with JC when we played them recently. 

I also recall Collins doing work when he's out of the game. These numbers can be misleading.

[HawkingAwesome]

All hawks need to do is hit their open shots

[Lurker]

The next time that Hunter playing at PF in an NBA game actually works out well will be the first time.

[marco102]

49 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Every PF that's very good is the worst matchup for JC

Giannis

AD

Durant

Tatum

 

He even struggles with Tobias Harris.

You are out of control. Who doesn't struggle with those guys. Let me list the three of the top players in the league and say JC struggles with them.

I don't get why you are so emotional about this. When JC was going off  in the first half of the first game you were calling him a max player. Now he can't play in the playoffs. 

I have no problem with your opinions, but at least keep it consistent and stop contradicting yourself.

[NBASupes]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

JC is pretty solid in all these matchups given that we are talking about two MVPs and a couple of first team All-NBA players.  JC has actually done extremely well against AD; way more efficient than Tatum; loses to Giannis; and ends up with both Durant and JC going off when they face each other.  Check out JC's insane TS% vs Durant.  Woah.  

Again, let's give JC more than 2 games but notably Randle's numbers are an improvement over his norm wayyyyyyyyy more than any of the people you mentioned (most of whom put up stellar numbers in their average game against all opponents). 

These numbers are extremely misleading. Cam guarded Durant and Hunter guarded Tatum. Man, you sly fox AHF 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You are out of control. Who doesn't struggle with those guys. Let me list the three of the top players in the league and say JC struggles with them.

I don't get why you are so emotional about this. When JC was going off  in the first half of the first game you were calling him a max player. Now he can't play in the playoffs. 

I have no problem with your opinions, but at least keep it consistent and stop contradicting yourself.

The issue I have with JC is always the issue I have with JC. I don't see a playoff level player. Never have. I always liked JC but I was the same guy saying I wouldn't pay him more than 4/40 million last year. I simply don't believe in JC. I like him but he's doesn't to do for me. 

 

I did the same for Smoove, people hated me for it, now, people go harder at Smoove than I ever have. To the point, I actually think he's underrated.

Edited May 27, 2021 by NBASupes

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Rose and Gibson.  Gibson and Rose.  Rinse and repeat.

The first article on the game by espn site talked strictly about Rose and Gibson. The name "Hawks" was in the first sentence as in the NYC crowd roared when the Knicks sealed the win and did not mention us again. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So far neither is Capela or Gallo....those are vets that are being paid the big bucks. 

I mean look at Bam in Miami who already got paid, he's not having a good series either.

Capela is making 18 million and worth every penny. His lack of offense isn't really killing us. He has the 3rd highest offensive RAPTOR on the squad which is problematic.

Gallo has been playing too many mins in these playoffs. He's killing us offensively. 

Our lack of production from the wings is where we are being killed the most. Hunter has been below average on both ends overall. He plays good early and stinks late. He still needs his legs and that's expected. Snell has been TRASH. Kevin been disappointing. 

Okongwu hasn't delivered. 

More players than JC have been worse than JC but JC is the one asking for a max contract. 

We knew Gallo was an overpay but his value is real, without him, our bench would be 10x worse. 

JC has a negative offensive RAPTOR. We can't have that and win games on average 

Kevin has solidified himself as someone that shouldn't get more than 10 million per year or you should be fired type of player. 

 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Thomas said:

The first article on the game by espn site talked strictly about Rose and Gibson. The name "Hawks" was in the first sentence as in the NYC crowd roared when the Knicks sealed the win and did not mention us again. 

Gibson would have had six fouls in the 1st QT if he played for the Hawks last night

[JeffS17]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Gibson would have had six fouls in the 1st QT if he played for the Hawks last night

This is the issue I have with last night and judging JC too harshly.  With that said, refs tend to (selectively) let guys play super physical in the playoffs and you have to play through that.  Siakam and JC both struggle because of their size/balance around the glass.  I still think we're going to have to match JC and we probably won't regret it long term, but I would rest a lot easier if he has a big game or two in the rest of this series.  

[Thomas]

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

Did anyone else see that Trae got spit on by a Knicks fan too? Disgusting.

In today's environment that has been filed as aggravated assault several times. How low can they go? 

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, hawkman said:

After re-watching the incidents from last night, I'm impressed with how disciplined the Hawks were. They didn't really react to any of the nonsense the Knicks or the fans were pulling last night. If the NBA really cares about the "integrity of the game" enough to fine Nate for some pretty benign comments, they better back it up by getting a handle on some of the nonsense I saw last night. Some of that stuff last night was well beyond "90's style" basketball and everyone, including the officials, seem fine with it since it's the Knicks. 

Noel tripping Trae was like Rodman tripping Stockton in the playoffs years ago. Beyond dirty and everyone saw it. Can screw up a guy's career with that stuff.

[NBASupes]

Based on production, true value to me and positional value, here is what players should get paid by me on this roster. Rookies aren't included. 

Trae Young - Supermax player. Max contract 

Clint Capela- Underpaid, 22-24 million per. 

John Collins - 18 million per. He improved a lot but he's a high end 6th man. He should get what Gallo did get. 

Hunter- 24 million per. Has a chance to become a max cat. 

Bogi - underpaid. 22-24 million 

Gallo - overpaid. MLE max 10 per at most. 

Kevin - MLE max. 10 per at most

Cam - min salary. Max contract potential though, maybe supermax potential. 

Bruno - Barcelona 

Goodwin - min salary 

Snell - vet min

Solo - vet min

Lou - Magic City

Dunn - vet min

Nate - He still need an extension but damnit, he's stubborn.