John Collins - Max kat, 90 million-4yrs kat, or Gallo salary kat

[RedDawg#8]

54 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I hope we can keep JC

See Supes, I knew you loved him deep down lol

[RandomFan]

2 hours ago, ATLHawks3 said:

Unlikely but if he does, we'll have a defensive unicorn.

He might be one of those already. Being able to play switch defense is the current unicorn ability of NBA centers. 

I just don't understand the focus on size. The prototype of what we want Okongwu to follow is Bam Adebayo, and he's one of the best defensive centers in the game. He's 6'9" and 255, so 1 inch taller and 20 pounds heavier than our OO. Bam was 243 at his draft weigh in. OO may never grow that extra inch, but you can bet your bottom dollar he is going to pack on 10 to 20 pounds of muscle over the next few years. 

If we want a center that can switch 1 through 5 and not get easily destroyed doing that, and it's 100% why Travis drafted him, then you're not gonna find a guy 6'11" and 280 lbs. that can do that. It's just not physically possible. We wouldn't just be playing small for the heck of it; it's a choice. We'd be playing smaller in order to sacrifice size to effectively play a more flexible and efficient scheme, along with the versatility to still play drop coverage if needed. It's a tradeoff, not a loss. 

We need to start getting it in our heads that this IS likely coming in the future for us. As long as OO keeps improving and emerges as starter quality within the next 2 years (which seems entirely plausible from what we've seen out of him), then he's going to be our starting center sooner than later. And when that happens his scheme flexibility will allow us to vary between drop coverage or switch coverage, probably preferring switch coverage to make it easier to protect Trae on D. Depending on OO's improvement, we might even see some stretches of us testing this out next season in spurts, trying to get our guys some exposure to it. 

[AHF]

19 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Especially at first is the quote that interests me - he has played full time center this past year.  This offseason should have him working on some PF skills.

He measured in at 6'-8" and 235lbs - he has an exceptional wingspan.  We can't keep playing small.

Edited: I'm hoping he has a growth spurt like Cam and end up at 6'-12"

To me it is pretty obvious that TS wants our PF to be able to spread the floor with his perimeter shot which is why JC has obviously put a ton of time into developing his 3pt shot and why TS went big after Gallo to add more perimeter shooting.  So OO is going to play center especially at first because he can't spread the floor today and TS doesn't want two guys who can't score other than near the basket clogging up the driving lanes for Trae and our wings.  

OO may always have some struggles on matchups against much heavier centers but I have a high degree of confidence from what I've seen from him so far that he can defend exceptionally well in a lot of matchups and that with time he will do a better job against those big centers.  But it is the development on offense that will allow us to run with him playing alongside a big like Capela or Steven Adams, etc. when we want to go big.  

[AHF]

16 hours ago, RandomFan said:

We need to start getting it in our heads that this IS likely coming in the future for us. As long as OO keeps improving and emerges as starter quality within the next 2 years (which seems entirely plausible from what we've seen out of him), then he's going to be our starting center sooner than later. And when that happens his scheme flexibility will allow us to vary between drop coverage or switch coverage, probably preferring switch coverage to make it easier to protect Trae on D. Depending on OO's improvement, we might even see some stretches of us testing this out next season in spurts, trying to get our guys some exposure to it. 

Capela's contract runs for 2 more years so that would be a perfect match of contract and development plan for OO.  I have zero doubt OO will continue to play a bigger role immediately next season and will continue to assume more and more responsibility as he develops.  What he can do will depend more than anything on how much stronger he gets and how much he develops on offense, imo.  He is going to be a versatile and valuable defender.

[RandomFan]

37 minutes ago, AHF said:

Capela's contract runs for 2 more years so that would be a perfect match of contract and development plan for OO.  I have zero doubt OO will continue to play a bigger role immediately next season and will continue to assume more and more responsibility as he develops.  What he can do will depend more than anything on how much stronger he gets and how much he develops on offense, imo.  He is going to be a versatile and valuable defender.

Agreed. I purposely said 2 years because that is how long he has to figure it out before Capela's contract runs out. But I'll be slightly surprised if he hasn't assumed the starting center role by the time next season's playoffs roll around. That would give us a year to have Cap serve as a backup, or the more likely scenario of trying to move his expiring contract for more long-term value for us as we'll likely be in salary cap heII by then. 

[AHF]

17 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Agreed. I purposely said 2 years because that is how long he has to figure it out before Capela's contract runs out. But I'll be slightly surprised if he hasn't assumed the starting center role by the time next season's playoffs roll around. That would give us a year to have Cap serve as a backup, or the more likely scenario of trying to move his expiring contract for more long-term value for us as we'll likely be in salary cap heII by then. 

I think you are underrating Capela and overestimating OO's likely development curve but I'll be thrilled if OO has seized the starting role by then.

[RandomFan]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you are underrating Capela and overestimating OO's likely development curve but I'll be thrilled if OO has seized the starting role by then.

I appear to be one of Capela's biggest defenders here, so I don't think I'm underrating him. I just have extremely high expectations of OO and I have a good idea how valuable having a switchable center is vs having a center that can only play drop coverage. I think too many people are sleeping on the emergence of this trend and just how valuable the few centers are that can actually play that scheme. 

The fact that OO can do that means he's likely going to be on the fast track to big minutes by the Hawks as soon as possible. We all know Nate has had an aversion to playing rookies in his career. OO didn't get as many minutes as a lot of us would have liked during the season, but the fact that he got as many as he did would seem to indicate the Hawks were really trying to force feed him minutes to speed up his growth. 

I mean maybe I'm reading too much into it and maybe I'll be completely wrong. Just calling it like I see it. That's the fun of speculating on forums, yeah? 

[marco102]

Run it back!

[NBASupes]

22 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

See Supes, I knew you loved him deep down lol

I never said I didn't. I just see the big picture and I don't see JC in that for us. That said, he's a major piece to the puzzle especially in the regular season. His consistency and efficiency is valuable. 

[bleachkit]

23 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I hope we can keep JC

I think JC wants to stay. 

[Hawkmoor]

Collins is most likely gone. The Hawks have Young, Huerter, and some others coming up for contracts. Once Collins gets that max offer from someone else, it's over. The Hawks most likely will not match that. Boston is still looking at him.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Hawkmoor

[bleachkit]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I never said I didn't. I just see the big picture and I don't see JC in that for us. That said, he's a major piece to the puzzle especially in the regular season. His consistency and efficiency is valuable. 

I still think that 4/90 was a fair deal. Sabonis is getting 4/77. 

[bleachkit]

You know who can be our back up power forward? Paul Milsap, he is a free agent.

[h4wkfan]

Just curious of people’s thoughts of better value. 
 

JC at 4/100

Portis at 3/36 + SnT Collins for a future unprotected 1st? Or some type of young player / draft picks. 
 

I’m pro Collins, but not at the max. Honestly I’d have to think long and hard if I wanted to go and match a 100M offer. Portis is an intriguing Fit. But more as a bench piece to replace galo than start. 
 

just a random thought. 

[ATLHawks3]

53 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

Just curious of people’s thoughts of better value. 
 

JC at 4/100

Portis at 3/36 + SnT Collins for a future unprotected 1st? Or some type of young player / draft picks. 
 

I’m pro Collins, but not at the max. Honestly I’d have to think long and hard if I wanted to go and match a 100M offer. Portis is an intriguing Fit. But more as a bench piece to replace galo than start. 
 

just a random thought. 

If a team has capspace, good luck getting an unprotected first. Our options would be limited in trying to replace his production. Not a huge fan of getting Portis.

[JeffS17]

On 7/6/2021 at 7:43 PM, NBASupes said:

I hope we can keep JC

Are you still hoping we get him at $10M per or are you up to $15M now 

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, RandomFan said:

I appear to be one of Capela's biggest defenders here, so I don't think I'm underrating him. I just have extremely high expectations of OO and I have a good idea how valuable having a switchable center is vs having a center that can only play drop coverage. I think too many people are sleeping on the emergence of this trend and just how valuable the few centers are that can actually play that scheme. 

The fact that OO can do that means he's likely going to be on the fast track to big minutes by the Hawks as soon as possible. We all know Nate has had an aversion to playing rookies in his career. OO didn't get as many minutes as a lot of us would have liked during the season, but the fact that he got as many as he did would seem to indicate the Hawks were really trying to force feed him minutes to speed up his growth. 

I mean maybe I'm reading too much into it and maybe I'll be completely wrong. Just calling it like I see it. That's the fun of speculating on forums, yeah? 

I'm with you here and I love Capela.  A big factor in the Bucks carving up our defense (other than Cam/Hunter being out most of the series) is how 1-dimensional Clint is on defense.  It makes our defense extremely predictable and over a 7 game series a team will finds the holes.  Being able to run different schemes and switch is a huge plus and OO can definitely do that.  His offensive game needs minimal improvement to be superior to Capelas.  The biggest downside is rebounding, you can't develop height.

[Watchman]

On 7/6/2021 at 12:08 PM, RandomFan said:

Gallo was on overpay, Bogi wasn't. 

Opinions vary.

[bird_dirt]

We HAVE to keep Collins.

I just got my JBap dunk on Embiid t-shirt in the mail today. It's imperative he's here for at least one more season so I can wear it on game days.

[Guest]

If I were the Hawks negotiators, trying to resign JC, I'd offer a five-year declining value deal (max allowed is 5% declination each year), starting at $25 mil.  That would end with a fifth-year salary of $20.50 mil.  I'd offer JC a player option for the fifth year, and include a team option for the fifth year as well, with a $5 mil payout if we choose the option to decline the final year.

That gives JC a guaranteed $97.5 million for four years, a nice increase over our initial offer last year - and since he is getting more upfront, it is basically a $25 million per year average.  Yes, it's $20 million less than someone else can offer him ($117 mil for four years) but that would be my starting offer.  If he doesn't take it, I'd still match any offer and deal with the consequences (good or bad) after a couple years of the contract.