Official Playoff Game Thread: Hawks at heat -- GAME 5

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

They are better than we are. JC was available, he played like crap. Trae played like crap. We played like crap. Stop looking for excuses and own up to the fact you were  wrong about this team. This team isn't that great, we just aren't. 

If anybody thinks that was the real JC and the real CC... they need to be going to the same place that Ben Simmons need to be going to...

These are not excuses... THESE ARE FACTS!!!

TRAE YOUNG WAS OUR SECOND HIGHEST REBOUNDER FOR THE SERIES..  2 REBOUNDS BEHIND OO.....

And you want us to act like that's normal??

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

Delon is a keeper. We can all agree on that one now, right? Also we need another PG regardless, the fact we couldn't figure out how to inbound the ball and cross half court with a full court press is mind boggling. Honestly I feel we got away with at least two eight second calls in the second half last night. 

Delon is an OG.. keeper... not really a PG.

Kev and Hunter cannot bring the ball up under pressure. 

Bogi can get the ball up under some pressure.

We need somebody who can handle the ball.. which is why I like Oladipo... We should target him.. especially if Nate stays. 

 

[Diesel]

54 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Nah, if the price is low enough we should. The thing with mental health is, it can improve. I know it can get worst, but generally if he is getting the help he needs he can work through it. If he comes to Atlanta, he would not get nearly as much scrutiny as the north east teams. I really wish the young man all the best though.

Nah Marco...  There's something deeply wrong with Simmons.  I didn't see it until this year but he's got something that has always been wrong with him.   I think his implosion last year brought it completely out but it's a nah.  Sorta like the stubbornness of Josh Smith.  Simmons is a great match for Trae but we will just have to wait and find another.   Jump on the Oladipo train with me. 

 

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If anybody thinks that was the real JC and the real CC... they need to be going to the same place that Ben Simmons need to be going to...

These are not excuses... THESE ARE FACTS!!!

TRAE YOUNG WAS OUR SECOND HIGHEST REBOUNDER FOR THE SERIES..  2 REBOUNDS BEHIND OO.....

And you want us to act like that's normal??

Yeah it's ok to acknowledge we got beat ...... but we had issues going on aside from getting outplayed and outexecuted.

[kg01]

Just now, Diesel said:

Nah Marco...  There's something deeply wrong with Simmons.  I didn't see it until this year but he's got something that has always been wrong with him.   I think his implosion last year brought it completely out but it's a nah.  Sorta like the stubbornness of Josh Smith.  Simmons is a great match for Trae but we will just have to wait and find another.   Jump on the Oladipo train with me. 

 

I was a heavy advocate of adding Simmons but this year has given even me pause ................ but, if the price is rite ..........................

........................................................................................................................ maaaaybe?

CBA eggsperts, can we get insurance to cover his contract if he is indeed bat shat crazy?  How'd that be different if he had a career-ending knee injury?

[Diesel]

Just now, kg01 said:

Yeah it's ok to acknowledge we got beat ...... but we had issues going on aside from getting outplayed and outexecuted.

Had we had Healthy JC and CC, we could have made this series go to about 6 or 7 or possibly won it.   but we can't look at what we put on the court and say that this was a true representation of our team. 

I credit Miami for being good. I create Coach Spo for exposing our weakness.  When you watched the game and you saw Miami flooding the lane with 4 rebounders on every possession..   And trapping every PNR.. You know that they knew what was wrong with us.  No Clint, NO JC.  Clint couldn't even run PNR in game 4.   They flooded the lane and made us a jump shooting team.   We had to wait on the maturity of Hunter to develop anything inside.   That and the constant double and shading of Trae was just genius level coaching and execution.  Trae averaged 5.0 rpg....  That's how rebounder poor we were.

 

 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I was a heavy advocate of adding Simmons but this year has given even me pause ................ but, if the price is rite ..........................

........................................................................................................................ maaaaybe?

CBA eggsperts, can we get insurance to cover his contract if he is indeed bat shat crazy?  How'd that be different if he had a career-ending knee injury?

The new CBA will probably have a games played Clause on every contract.   I think it's 65 games for non-injured players and another number maybe 41 for injured (whereever the insurance picks up).   If that be the case, if we could grandfather that in for Simmons and if the price is truly low... then yeah.. but I think he has something really wrong with him just by watching the way he moves. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Had we had Healthy JC and CC, we could have made this series go to about 6 or 7 or possibly won it.   but we can't look at what we put on the court and say that this was a true representation of our team. 

I credit Miami for being good. I create Coach Spo for exposing our weakness.  When you watched the game and you saw Miami flooding the lane with 4 rebounders on every possession..   And trapping every PNR.. You know that they knew what was wrong with us.  No Clint, NO JC.  Clint couldn't even run PNR in game 4.   They flooded the lane and made us a jump shooting team.   We had to wait on the maturity of Hunter to develop anything inside.   That and the constant double and shading of Trae was just genius level coaching and execution.  Trae averaged 5.0 rpg....  That's how rebounder poor we were.

The question becomes whether or not Hunter's game was a Reddish moment or sign of things to come.

I'm a Hunter fan, despite what some probably think, but I'm hoping that game means we can sell high on an established star via trade.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

The new CBA will probably have a games played Clause on every contract.   I think it's 65 games for non-injured players and another number maybe 41 for injured (whereever the insurance picks up).   If that be the case, if we could grandfather that in for Simmons and if the price is truly low... then yeah.. but I think he has something really wrong with him just by watching the way he moves. 

And the funny thing is, I've always looked at him sideways because he seems distant.  I thought it was just aloofness but these recent episodes call his actual mental makeup into question, genuinely.  Seeing him in that clown suit on the bench while his team got punked was kinda surreal.

I think my guy @bleachkit went at me for saying it was "just" the back.  It's looking like he got one right here.  Don't get too happy, bleach, we'll chalk it up to the 'broken clock being right twice a day'. 

[marco102]

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Nah Marco...  There's something deeply wrong with Simmons.  I didn't see it until this year but he's got something that has always been wrong with him.   I think his implosion last year brought it completely out but it's a nah.  Sorta like the stubbornness of Josh Smith.  Simmons is a great match for Trae but we will just have to wait and find another.   Jump on the Oladipo train with me. 

 

lol...I trust Simmons mental health more than Oladipo's knees. 

Or like @JayBirdHawk likes to say, why not both? 

[macdaddy]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The question becomes whether or not Hunter's game was a Reddish moment or sign of things to come.

I'm a Hunter fan, despite what some probably think, but I'm hoping that game means we can sell high on an established star via trade.

I like Hunter but given that he sank a lot of jumpers i think it's more of a Reddish moment.  Wasn't like he was taking his guy off the dribble and getting to the hole.   Created enough space to get a shot off most of the time.   Granted it was awesome.  If he can do it consistently that would be huge.  

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I like Hunter but given that he sank a lot of jumpers i think it's more of a Reddish moment.  Wasn't like he was taking his guy off the dribble and getting to the hole.   Created enough space to get a shot off most of the time.   Granted it was awesome.  If he can do it consistently that would be huge.  

And just so folks don't assume I'm raining on the parade, I say let it play out on paper.  Say it was a sign of development and not just a blip.  Ok, the next step is him doing it when the defense expects it and plans for it.

That's a huge chasm to cross.  And, to cross it, he's gonna have to be able to handle significantly better than he seems capable of.  That's not a one offseason fix, most likely.  So the 'move' is still to sell high.

Am I wrong there?

[JeffS17]

13 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The question becomes whether or not Hunter's game was a Reddish moment or sign of things to come.

I'm a Hunter fan, despite what some probably think, but I'm hoping that game means we can sell high on an established star via trade.

For Reddish, it was the first time he did anything positive on the court.  Hunter has shown flashes in-between injuries where he was shooting 50/40 while playing solid defense.  I'm not saying he's suddenly an elite player but I think he will continue to get better and look better with continuity of staying healthy.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

For Reddish, it was the first time he did anything positive on the court.  Hunter has shown flashes in-between injuries where he was shooting 50/40 while playing solid defense.  I'm not saying he's suddenly an elite player but I think he will continue to get better and look better with continuity of staying healthy.

I hear you here.  This is the player we expected Hunter to become.  But if a finished product is available, I can see it being a better option to pull the trigger on a trade package.

[Final_quest]

Wow, a lot of reactions that you would expect from losing a playoff series in five games.  My main thought is caution against taking one series and letting that frame your thinking about a team or player.  We have to get used to a variety of playoff results.  I already brought up Miami going from Finals to swept in the playoffs and now getting the #1 seed.  

Something was off with this series, and I can't quite put my finger on it.  I think it was a mixture of our weaknesses getting exposed, key injuries, and refs allowing "Heat culture" to bend the rules in their favor.  I do give the Heat credit.  They came up with a winning defensive scheme. 

Hunter went off for sure.  He showed a few signs of putting together a complete game during the series, but I didn't expect him to look like a star and take over a game.  It's not just me, he looked like a failed draft pick before this series.  No one talked about his injuries being the cause of mediocre results until he started playing better.  That Game 5 from Hunter was awesome for our team.  Now dangling Hunter in a trade means something totally different.  Side note: I don't remember a game where someone other than Trae looked like the offensive engine of our team.  

[Spud2nique]

17 minutes ago, marco102 said:

why not both? 

Or neither.  just saying.

[macdaddy]

And one thing overlooked is our D was pretty good despite missing some key players.    Herro and Robinson didn't do much.  Basically Jimmy beat us but a lot of that was from the free throw line.  

[Spud2nique]

Last year we peaked but again we are a young team that needs to go through our bumps in the road. That was a good tough lesson learned. This is part of it. 
 

Now our young guys will learn that games should never be “boring”. Play hard to get that home court in the playoffs.

Couple tweaks to the roster and I think we can be a top 4 team in the East again next year.

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Wow, a lot of reactions that you would expect from losing a playoff series in five games.  My main thought is caution against taking one series and letting that frame your thinking about a team or player.  We have to get used to a variety of playoff results.  I already brought up Miami going from Finals to swept in the playoffs and now getting the #1 seed.  

Something was off with this series, and I can't quite put my finger on it.  I think it was a mixture of our weaknesses getting exposed, key injuries, and refs allowing "Heat culture" to bend the rules in their favor.  I do give the Heat credit.  They came up with a winning defensive scheme. 

Hunter went off for sure.  He showed a few signs of putting together a complete game during the series, but I didn't expect him to look like a star and take over a game.  It's not just me, he looked like a failed draft pick before this series.  No one talked about his injuries being the cause of mediocre results until he started playing better.  That Game 5 from Hunter was awesome for our team.  Now dangling Hunter in a trade means something totally different.  Side note: I don't remember a game where someone other than Trae looked like the offensive engine of our team.  

I bring it up every time rather he's playing well or bad. Again, I'd like to see what we have with him after a healthy off season of work.  Not saying he's going to be game 5 Hunter, but if we get that, he signficantly raises the Hawks ceiling.  He still has more to work on.  The wrist caused his handle to loosen.  Hopefully, we can see a big improvement there and with rebounding and facilitating. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by marco102

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I bring it up every time rather he's playing well or bad. Again, I'd like to see what we have with him after a healthy off season of work.  Not saying he's going to be game 5 Hunter, but if we get that, he signficantly raises the Hawks season.  He still has more to work on.  The wrist caused his handle to loosen.  Hopefully, we can see a big improvement there and rebounding and facilitating. 

I'm mostly excited that we have some tangible results from Hunter to up his trade value if we go that route.