Official Game Thread: Nets at Hawks

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Why is Orlando doing well.  Is there a player on their team outside of Paolo that's a 'superstar'?  And Paolo ain't even that.  And he's not a good defender yet either.

Why are the Knicks doing so well since they got Bruson?  Is he better than Trae?  or is it that they have a good scoring big in Randle even though he's an imperfect player that most around here wouldn't want?

Do the Pacers have multiple stars?  They have Hali who is great but isn't exactly a Luka or Ant type scorer and they have a bunch of role players.  Buddy Hield and Obi Toppin are playing big roles. Two more guys not good enough for the Hawks. 

Why'd Dallas go from Lottery to top 4?  They added famous malcontent/overrated Kyrie and what do you know suddenly Luka has a lot less pressure on him.

Even overweight and overrated Zion is having more success than us.  Why?  well BI is a pretty good scorer and they are getting lots of buckets from CJ 'too small can't guard a box way overpaid' McCollum.  

Teams passed us.  They passed us by taking the talent they had and adding role players, imperfect scorers, and in some cases "gasp", guys who were overpaid.   We shipped out those guys and prayed for rookies to develop.  

It's a risk taking league.  We aren't taking any.  

Orlando tanked forever, they started the same time we did and finally ended it this year.

Knicks fit. They got a style and a scheme and their players fit the scheme. They are still in the middle like us because they don't have much in top end talent 

Dallas got a top 5 player. 

They got a very good squad when healthy without Zion. With Zion, they have been #1 seed or close each of the last two seasons when he's healthy. 

The issue with us is we got bad fits, size issues, can't score easy baskets, no toughness, no edge, we just talented and we can execute offensively in many different ways but unless you special, it means nothing.

 

 

 

[Final_quest]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Why is Orlando doing well.  Is there a player on their team outside of Paolo that's a 'superstar'?  And Paolo ain't even that.  And he's not a good defender yet either.

Why are the Knicks doing so well since they got Bruson?  Is he better than Trae?  or is it that they have a good scoring big in Randle even though he's an imperfect player that most around here wouldn't want?

Do the Pacers have multiple stars?  They have Hali who is great but isn't exactly a Luka or Ant type scorer and they have a bunch of role players.  Buddy Hield and Obi Toppin are playing big roles. Two more guys not good enough for the Hawks. 

Why'd Dallas go from Lottery to top 4?  They added famous malcontent/overrated Kyrie and what do you know suddenly Luka has a lot less pressure on him.

Even overweight and overrated Zion is having more success than us.  Why?  well BI is a pretty good scorer and they are getting lots of buckets from CJ 'too small can't guard a box way overpaid' McCollum.  

Teams passed us.  They passed us by taking the talent they had and adding role players, imperfect scorers, and in some cases "gasp", guys who were overpaid.   We shipped out those guys and prayed for rookies to develop.  

It's a risk taking league.  We aren't taking any.  

I love everything you are saying, except the last line.  

Initial risk was to accelerate the talent level on a top 8 lottery team by adding Capela, Bogi, and Gallo.  Next risk was trading a bunch of draft capital for a guy who was supposed to address our two main flaws: point of attack defense and offense creation apart from Trae.  

Last summer they made a pretty healthy attempt to bring in another allstar.  I think we are more than comfortable taking risks.  

[kg01]

15 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Why is Orlando doing well.  Is there a player on their team outside of Paolo that's a 'superstar'?  And Paolo ain't even that.  And he's not a good defender yet either.

Why are the Knicks doing so well since they got Bruson?  Is he better than Trae?  or is it that they have a good scoring big in Randle even though he's an imperfect player that most around here wouldn't want?

Do the Pacers have multiple stars?  They have Hali who is great but isn't exactly a Luka or Ant type scorer and they have a bunch of role players.  Buddy Hield and Obi Toppin are playing big roles. Two more guys not good enough for the Hawks. 

Why'd Dallas go from Lottery to top 4?  They added famous malcontent/overrated Kyrie and what do you know suddenly Luka has a lot less pressure on him.

Even overweight and overrated Zion is having more success than us.  Why?  well BI is a pretty good scorer and they are getting lots of buckets from CJ 'too small can't guard a box way overpaid' McCollum.  

Teams passed us.  They passed us by taking the talent they had and adding role players, imperfect scorers, and in some cases "gasp", guys who were overpaid.   We shipped out those guys and prayed for rookies to develop.  

It's a risk taking league.  We aren't taking any.  

I think we OVER-emphasized skill over will.  

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ok, if as you say the team is built wrong, you don't throw out the baby with the bath water for picks that you have no idea where they will fall.  

And as long as we keep penny pinching, we will ALWAYS be behind the 8-ball.

Can't disagree with this 

[BrazilianHawk]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ok, if as you say the team is built wrong, you don't throw out the baby with the bath water for picks that you have no idea where they will fall.  

And as long as we keep penny pinching, we will ALWAYS be behind the 8-ball.

Yeah, sure, but should we stay the course if/when we fail to even make the play-in? 

[terrell]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I think this is a grass is greener thing.  Let's be honest there's a lot of politics as to why Trae wasn't in more all star games.  We all know if he was with another franchise he would have been there.  Is he as good as Luka? No probably not.  Is he as good as Hali.  I don't know.  I think he's better at getting his own shot and better at distributing.  Hali can shoot like crazy though. 

But talk to me when those guys have done something.  Luka couldn't get his team into the play in last year.  Now they've brought in Kyrie to save him.  

My only point is it doesn't matter who's better.  It matters whether you can build a team with them. So far all these guys who are so much better than Trae haven't been successfully built around either.  (realizing i may eat my words this year but that's ok).

 

Luka team has had like 2 1st rd picks Total since hes been in Dallas.. And one was a late 1st..

And the Mavs are still better than the Hawks who had no telling how many..

Tells you how bad our F.O. is/was

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I think we OVER-emphasized skill over will.  

We love skill. Golden State won 4 titles with tremendous skill

Just now, terrell said:

Luka team has had like 2 1st rd picks Total since hes been in Dallas.. And one was a late 1st..

And the Mavs are still better than the Hawks who had no telling how many..

Tells you how bad our F.O. is/was

 

I'll give them one thing, Luka makes it hard to tank.

[Final_quest]

I actually see that we are in a similar place as Sacramento before they picked Halliburton with a late lottery pick.  That allowed them to flip Halliburton for Sabonis.  Then they drafted Keegan Murray. 

Anyways, they would have made a mistake if they traded Fox.  

[kg01]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

We love skill. Golden State won 4 titles with tremendous skill

Their will >>>>>>>>> their skill.

Look outside their main guys too. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Their will >>>>>>>>> their skill.

Look outside their main guys too. 

I don't believe will is as much an issue for us as we just can't score an easy basket

Ya'll will see what I am talking about when the Hawks get a center that can easily score in the post 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I actually see that we are in a similar place as Sacramento before they picked Halliburton with a late lottery pick.  That allowed them to flip Halliburton for Sabonis.  Then they drafted Keegan Murray. 

Anyways, they would have made a mistake if they traded Fox.  

I agree. Hali was never gonna fit in Sacramento. The team was built around Fox whereas Indy built around Hali 

[kg01]

Just now, NBASupes said:

I don't believe will is as much an issue for us as we just can't score an easy basket

True but there are large portions of the game where our guys are getting outworked, beaten to spots, etc. 

[JayBirdHawk]

20 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Why is Orlando doing well.  Is there a player on their team outside of Paolo that's a 'superstar'?  And Paolo ain't even that.  And he's not a good defender yet either.

 

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Orlando tanked forever, they started the same time we did and finally ended it this year.

Nope. When we drafted Trae in 2018 - Was the last time Orlando had a winning record (42-40) and was still making the playoffs with Vuc, Fournier, Terrance Ross and Isaac in his 2nd season (for the next 2 years) .  Since then they have been 'rebuilding' and drafting high lottery picks. They seem to have finally put it together in the early season.

[terrell]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

At this point, it's clear. Everyone on the outside can see this. Our mistake happened when we traded for Clint, signed Gallo and Bogi. We ended the tank too early. Now we are stuck. 

Yeah and I wanted Maxey with that pick we gave away for Capela.. smh

And I dont give a fk if we already had Trae Young..(Its like Schlenk was afraid to draft any more guards after he took Trae. We needed a young backup PG for years..Then he finally drafts another small one in Sharife one.. lol)

You draft the best talent..

Fill holes in FA and trades

Well at least thats the way Id do it...

Hopefully we can fool some dumber GM to take some of this trash off of our hands or like you said its gonna be a looooong 3 years.. Geez

Edited December 7, 2023 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't believe will is as much an issue for us as we just can't score an easy basket

Out hustled and out muscled too often.  Slow to loose balls, not boxing out and securing rebounds.  The little things matter.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I actually see that we are in a similar place as Sacramento before they picked Halliburton with a late lottery pick.

Sacramento had not been to the playoffs in how many years prior to last year?

[JTB]

All of this is good but what’s the solution???

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I love everything you are saying, except the last line.  

Initial risk was to accelerate the talent level on a top 8 lottery team by adding Capela, Bogi, and Gallo.  Next risk was trading a bunch of draft capital for a guy who was supposed to address our two main flaws: point of attack defense and offense creation apart from Trae.  

Last summer they made a pretty healthy attempt to bring in another allstar.  I think we are more than comfortable taking risks.  

I'd make the case that since we acquired Cap, Bogi, Gallo and don't forget LouWill that we have basically acquired nobody since other than DJ and now Bey.  Think about it for a sec.  In 3 years we've only acquired 2 real rotation players.  And lost 4 pretty important ones. 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

True but there are large portions of the game where our guys are getting outworked, beaten to spots, etc. 

That's not really fixable with this personnel 

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I'd make the case that since we acquired Cap, Bogi, Gallo and don't forget LouWill that we have basically acquired nobody since other than DJ and now Bey.  Think about it for a sec.  In 3 years we've only acquired 2 real rotation players.  And lost 4 pretty important ones. 

We had a lot of money. We don't have a lot of money anymore

[kg01]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

That's not really fixable with this personnel 

Agreed.  2nd time this week we've agreed, supes.  That can't be good.