Official Game Thread: Hawks at Rockets

[JTB]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm starting to envision Schlenk ending up being the Hawks version of Coppolella tbh with the Hawks eventually having a surprise emergence earlier than thought. He gets some good talent but fails to mold a winner because all he knows about is really focusing on the draft, and the next regime does better at it. The thing that's a question is what ends up ousting him though? You don't have an IFA. 

Maybe another "incident" happens that does it.

Yup trae and luka weren’t supposed to be this damn good this damn early . For Trae to make these kind of major strides in just year two is just mind blowing and for the rest of the young core (including Collins and huerter) to be vastly behind Traes level at this point This early ...it’s a bit scary going forward in my opinion.

I mean fir example hunter and reddish may not be able to actually help the offense consistently until their year 3 or 4...which is fine but another 2 seasons Or so of this “waiting on the development of others to get better offensive help” from traes point of view is probably depressing and just uninteresting for him.

[JTB]

9 minutes ago, marco102 said:

This is a bit of an overreaction.  The Hawks will probably get a couple of wins this week.  They have played a murders row of teams on back to backs and they are young team dealing with injuries.  They were competetive in the first two games of the road trip.  The overtime yesterday, made this game a wrap for Houston.  With no shooting, I didn't expect this type of loss, but I expected a loss. 

Now if we get blown out by every team next week, it may be time to panic, just a little.

I don’t think it’s overreacting post unless someone says

“trae is going to leave us when he’s a unrestricted free agent”....

lol now that would be overreacting because he doesn’t have help right now. But facts are facts and the fact is , is that this man Trae has taken his game to such a high level For a year 2 player that Schlenk wasn’t even ready for it.

now you have to ask yourself as a gm do I continue this current plan or do I start to try to bring in some immediate help for trae while keeping most of this current young core intact? Do I really need to add 2 more draft picks to A team that clearly already need a lot of development? How is my star player Trae feeling about this all this ?...will trae be as committed to this team down the stretch if we continue to lose this way for 2 more seasons ?

[NBASupes]

I don't want to hear anyone shitting on Cam Reddish on forward. Detroit game and this game is a prime example of why Cam is important. His scoring, finishing and play in traffic is basura at this stage, his defense and awareness is >>>>>>>>> over the other starters not named Hunter.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

I don’t think it’s overreacting post unless someone says

“trae is going to leave us when he’s a unrestricted free agent”....

lol now that would be overreacting because he doesn’t have help right now. But facts are facts and the fact is , is that this man Trae has taken his game to such a high level For a year 2 player that Schlenk wasn’t even ready for it.

now you have to ask yourself as a gm do I continue this current plan or do I start to try to bring in some immediate help for trae while keeping most of this current young core intact? Do I really need to add 2 more draft picks to A team that clearly already need a lot of development? How is my star player Trae feeling about this all this ?...will trae be as committed to this team down the stretch if we continue to lose this way for 2 more seasons ?

I'm not sure you and Lurker were talking about the same thing.  Did you see who I quoted?

[Blunt91]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't want to hear anyone shitting on Cam Reddish on forward. Detroit game and this game is a prime example of why Cam is important. His scoring, finishing and play in traffic is basura at this stage, his defense and awareness is >>>>>>>>> over the other starters not named Hunter.

I don't want to hear anyone say they don't want to sign Andre Drummond  because he does not fit with our offense. What freaking offense? Can't even make shots, At least if Drummond was on the team we could get some easy baskets. We let guys go over our back and get easy tip ins.  The lack of a Big(bigs) who can Rebound  is even worse than the backup PG position.  I am not saying he would be a savior, but do not act like he would not help this pathetic team.

[NBASupes]

I gotta agree and disagree with @Plainview1981

This isn't the worst Hawk team ever or even close as they are  low floor, high ceiling when everyone is available. That team was trash when everyone was available. 

Where he is right is this team especially for it's era, current iteration that we see without John and Kevin is the worst team I've seen in the last 10 years. 

Here is why? 

The worst shooters I've seen in ages. 

One of the worst starting defenses.

One of the WOAT benches. 

Our vets don't even play hard outside of Bembry and he nullify it constantly. They are extremely overpaid. 

Our rookies roles are too big for now. Hunter was playing the entire season last year at the 4. Cam was raw offensively outside of shooting threes at Duke. Now he is struggling at the threes and still raw af at the other scoring areas. He has developed on other parts but still a WIP. 

We traded a decent young player in Spellman for a scrub. 
 

We lost a center who fit our team seamlessly and replaced him with nothing. 

Collins got suspended and Kev got hurt killed our team. 

Parker has shown that he can be a good 6th man but he is an awful starter. 

This team has been disgraceful outside of Trae this entire 10 game losing streak. Since John's suspension, we been trash. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Blunt91 said:

I don't want to hear anyone say they don't want to sign Andre Drummond  because he does not fit with our offense. What freaking offense? Can't even make shots, At least if Drummond was on the team we could get some easy baskets. We let guys go over our back and get easy tip ins.  The lack of a Big(bigs) who can Rebound  is even worse than the backup PG position.  I am not saying he would be a savior, but do not act like he would not help this pathetic team.

His salary and trade price has been my issue. He doesn't justify that value especially at that cost. The Hawks need a quality center, they don't need one like Drummond that negatively impacts their future. They just need someone who can fix their now. 

[Lurker]

50 minutes ago, High5 said:

Coppolella wasn't the GM long enough to fail to mold a winner. We were supposed to suck when he was here. 

From what his actions were, I kind of think he wasn't going to work out outside of the gathering talent angle. That's what I see at least.

[High5]

10 minutes ago, Blunt91 said:

I don't want to hear anyone say they don't want to sign Andre Drummond  because he does not fit with our offense. What freaking offense? Can't even make shots, At least if Drummond was on the team we could get some easy baskets. We let guys go over our back and get easy tip ins.  The lack of a Big(bigs) who can Rebound  is even worse than the backup PG position.  I am not saying he would be a savior, but do not act like he would not help this pathetic team.

Paying Drummond ~$30 million a year would be a nice boost in the short term, but how far would we really go and how much would we regret it down the road? Hard to say. I imagine Schlenk wants to be a player in 2021 FA, but that’s obviously a gamble.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, High5 said:

Paying Drummond ~$30 million a year would be a nice boost in the short term, but how far would we really go and how much would we regret it down the road? Hard to say. I imagine Schlenk wants to be a player in 2021 FA, but that’s obviously a gamble.

A signing of a player like Drummond impacts more than 2021, it impacts 2022, 2023, and 2024 and our upcoming FAs. For him to make sense, he needs to be a true net positive. In my perspective, he flat out isn't. I just don't see the value. 

[High5]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

A signing of a player like Drummond impacts more than 2021, it impacts 2022, 2023, and 2024 and our upcoming FAs. For him to make sense, he needs to be a true net positive. In my perspective, he flat out isn't. I just don't see the value. 

I think he’s definitely a net positive. I just don’t like the idea of paying a non-star player $30 million. But at the same time, we don’t need the cap next season and it’s entirely possible if not likely Schlenk strikes out on big names in 2021. So I’d rather have an overpaid Drummond than no one while we’re benefitting from these rookie contacts.
 

It’s tough to say what the best course of action is if you can get Drummond on a 2 or 3 year deal. I’ll definitely pass on 4+ years though.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, High5 said:

I think he’s definitely a net positive. I just don’t like the idea of paying a non-star player $30 million. But at the same time, we don’t need the cap next season and it’s entirely possible if not likely Schlenk strikes out on big names in 2021. So I’d rather have an overpaid Drummond than no one while we’re benefitting from these rookie contacts.
 

It’s tough to say what the best course of action is if you can get Drummond on a 2 or 3 year deal. I’ll definitely pass on 4+ years though.

You see him in a much brighter light than I do maybe the reason. I see him as a B level player who can't really help you win games but he can be a piece you add that adds value. For me, that's worth about 17-20 million, especially for a center. 

 

You see him as an impact player that if you put him around Trae, he will be a legit stud. I don't see that but if you do, I see why you think he is worth it and I hope you can see why I clearly don't. 

I am going by what I've seen. 

His defense is just solid. 

His offense is limited. 

Post defense and rebounding is his strengths. He is like a rich man's Alex Len. That's just not worth that much to me. Maybe if he was better at defending in space like Capela or has shooting range where he can space the floor with his rebounding and size, I could see more value at that point but from what I see, I think he is just a tier above being a JAG. 

[Spud2nique]

I can’t nor would I want to analyze this one. Oh my word. I just...that was tough for everyone, players, coaches, fan base. 
 

We need more everything. Dang.

[High5]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You see him in a much brighter light than I do maybe the reason. I see him as a B level player who can't really help you win games but he can be a piece you add that adds value. For me, that's worth about 17-20 million, especially for a center. 

 

You see him as an impact player that if you put him around Trae, he will be a legit stud. I don't see that but if you do, I see why you think he is worth it and I hope you can see why I clearly don't. 

I am going by what I've seen. 

His defense is just solid. 

His offense is limited. 

Post defense and rebounding is his strengths. He is like a rich man's Alex Len. That's just not worth that much to me. Maybe if he was better at defending in space like Capela or has shooting range where he can space the floor with his rebounding and size, I could see more value at that point but from what I see, I think he is just a tier above being a JAG. 

I clearly stated that I don’t think he’s worth $30 million. It’s a question of whether or not we will do something better with that $30 million. If we don’t sign a big name in 2021 then I think the answer is no, but that’s only through 21-22. Beyond that I’m not sure just how much it would affect us.

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, High5 said:

I clearly stated that I don’t think he’s worth $30 million. It’s a question of whether or not we will do something better with that $30 million. If we don’t sign a big name in 2021 then I think the answer is no, but that’s only through 21-22. Beyond that I’m not sure just how much it would affect us.

I've said this before. Atlanta would do better to add two more rookies and use that money to fill out the rest of their rosters with high end quality role players. 

Hawks 8 youngins: 

Trae/Collins/Kev

Cam/Hunter/Bruno

Two rookies

Two returnees: 

Bembry???/Parker???

Quality vets with the other four-five slots. 

I wouldn't mind the Hawks being risky either. 

Adding Harrell or Parker/Baynes or Noel/Jeff Teague or D.J. Augustin/Kenrich  Williams or Torrey Craig or Malik Beasley/Etc. 

 

The Hawks need to add as much vet talent than anything. Teams like Boston can go 10 deep and their bench feels like a starting unit. Our bench feels like the G-League. We need to fix that. I rather put my eggs into a number of decent baskets than just one good basket. Now if Drummond was very good, excellent or elite, I would be singing the same tune as you. 

[Spud2nique]

Dang @NBASupes I forgot u witnessed this one live. Aside from anything that went on in the game I hope you enjoyed the night and atmosphere.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Dang @NBASupes I forgot u witnessed this one live. Aside from anything that went on in the game I hope you enjoyed the night and atmosphere.

It was fine. I expected the L after seeing Houston compared to Atlanta in shootaround. Houston was all business, Harden was making everything as was Ben Mac and Tucker. I got there early 6PM so I saw everyone and I had great tix. I wasn't too surprised, I picked the outcome after the 1st QT and my wife laughed how accurate I was. I get these vibes and unless something crazy happens like LAC 3rd stringers making everything, usually I am pretty accurate. When you used to bet on sports, it becomes 2nd nature. 

Losses don't bother me but this performance was horrendous. 

[Sothron]

My worry about the Hawks is Trae developing Superman mentality where he thinks he has to Allen Iverson or Westbrook every game in order to win. We desperately need some of these guys to step up. Parker is a good sixth man but not a good starter. He doesn't play defense at all. Cam is so bad on offense it is cringe worthy. Hunter isn't much better and considering his age that's mildly alarming.

We need an upgrade at center something bad. I don't want a one dimensional guy like Adams from OKC or Drummond. I know he's  hurt right now but what about the guy in Portland? In my Hawks 2k franchise I forgot to set it up with injuries on so when Portland offered me Nurkic for non core pieces I did it. He can board, block, can pass and has an inside and outside game.

I don't know how Portland can keep all their guys and I feel like we could get him away from him. He's 25 which as a big man means he's just entering his prime  years for the next 8-10 years health permitting. 

I know that Cam and Hunter are rookies and Cam is cookie dough raw as a NBA player. We can't expect every Hawks rookie to be like Collins or Trae where their development was microwave fast. Sometimes you need to put them in the oven for two years to see what you got. Cam is looking like a two year project. Hunter a one year project. 

It is going to be tough to watch games until Collins and Red Velvet are back. We have guys that are literally useless like Parson and Crabbe and, I hate to say this, but Vince Carter should not get any playing time. The only non Trae Hawks worth watching at this point are Bembry and Bruno.  I would start:

Trae

Bembry

Cam

Hunter

Bruno

We're not playing for any potential playoffs at this point. We need to see what we got with these young kids and IMO really see what Bembry can do. He's shown at times he can be a potential game changer on both ends and then he gets buried on the bench or hurt. Ride him while we can.

 

[Spud2nique]

 

 

[Spud2nique]

41 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I know he's  hurt right now but what about the guy in Portland? In my Hawks 2k franchise I forgot to set it up with injuries on so when Portland offered me Nurkic for non core pieces I did it. He can board, block, can pass and has an inside and outside game.

Yes I actually mentioned the Bosnian bear in Supes dec 15 trade thread today. He was one of my 5 targets along with Looney, and the 3 NY guys. Mitch Rob, Gibby and Randle. Randle is the only one with the bigger contract.

My #1 guy is Tristan Thompson. High level diff maker at a fairly low cost.

@Sothron ur sneaking into the squawk fantasy football really hot I don’t wanna see ur team. Lol.