Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ouch 

 

If we can fix our 4th quarter woes - we'd be something special 

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Defense - Absolutely. It has sucked since Hunter went down

Offensive schemes - Absolutely. LP pretty much has zero ability to draw up anything resembling an offensive gameplan

Coaching staff - Absolutely.  LP needs to be gone.  

All of that is true.  It's also true, in my opinion, that the BIGGEST reason for the Hawks sucking is Trae not playing the way Trae usually plays.  The Hawks have lost close games after having the lead in the 4th how many times now?  11 times? And in nearly all of them Trae was a non-factor in the 4th.  You do the math. 

The problem is, all of those things you mentioned and Trae overlap to some degree.  It all adds up to a cluster.  I'm at the point where I don't think LP is solely to blame, but something needs to change and he's the logical move, imo.  Change the HC, get healthy, and see if someone can snap Trae out of whatever funk he's in.  He needs to be aggressive Trae for the Hawks to have success.   

Defense - Huerter is a massive downgrade from Hunter and him and Trae have been turnstiles for the last 3 years. Kevin defense is worse than Trae. 

Offensive scheme - it seems to be better to me than years past. I see a lot more ball movement and shot quality outside of Trae personal creation is improving. A lot of our issue is Trae isn't Trae right now. Iso Trae used to be a very good play even when spammed. Now it's worse than Iso Joe by a good margin.

Coaching staff - They are clearly better than last year but man, I don't think you can justify another tank even with the injuries considering how good Capela and Hunter was for us this year. 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's just not true since most times Trae is being doubled, teams don't have to guard Capela outside the paint when he sets a screen - they stick with Trae and send a rotation to Capela on a lob (which rarely happens since Trae's passing is usually on point, NYL sniffed those out last night though).

Trae was the most doubled player in the NBA last year. Him being doubled is not new to us. I see more single coverage this year than last on Young for sure. His passing touch has been off this year. He's a smarter passer this year for sure but that pinpoint accuracy isn't there this year.

Edited February 16, 2021 by NBASupes

[REHawksFan]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae was the most doubled player in the NBA last year. Him being doubled is not new to us. I see more single coverage this year than last on Young for sure. His passing touch has been off this year. He's a smarter passer this year for sure but that pinpoint accuracy isn't there this year.

Just reading the things you and others have surmised along with my own observations, it sure seems like the culprit is as simple as not being in the bubble and not playing competitive ball for 8 months.  What else would explain not getting by defenders, inaccurate passing, and an out of sync floater?  

[bleachkit]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae was the most doubled player in the NBA last year. Him being doubled is not new to us. I see more single coverage this year than last on Young for sure. His passing touch has been off this year. He's a smarter passer this year for sure but that pinpoint accuracy isn't there this year.

He has made less "wow" passes this year. Last year he has some amazing passes, and amazing shots at the rim. 

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Just reading the things you and others have surmised along with my own observations, it sure seems like the culprit is as simple as not being in the bubble and not playing competitive ball for 8 months.  What else would explain not getting by defenders, inaccurate passing, and an out of sync floater?  

How long is that excuse going to last? We are two months into the season. 

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

How long is that excuse going to last? We are two months into the season. 

Well I'm not intending that statement to be an excuse.  If you think I've excused his play these last several games you haven't really been paying attention.  I'm honestly trying to ascertain WHY Trae has gone from one of the better 4th quarter players in the NBA last year to one of the worst or at the very least one of the least impactful 4th quarter players this year. 

How long will it last?  I don't know.  Hopefully not much longer.  But I'm seriously just trying to understand why it's happening because as I have said ad nauseum, he's the key to the Hawks winning at least until Hunter gets back (which is several weeks out).  And them winning is what we all want, right?  

Edited February 16, 2021 by REHawksFan

[NBASupes]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

Just reading the things you and others have surmised along with my own observations, it sure seems like the culprit is as simple as not being in the bubble and not playing competitive ball for 8 months.  What else would explain not getting by defenders, inaccurate passing, and an out of sync floater?  

That's what I think as to in terms of shooting and accuracy issues. But the 1v1 stuff and overall quickness....

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

He has made less "wow" passes this year. Last year he has some amazing passes, and amazing shots at the rim. 

He hasn't been fun for the common fan. He's baiting a lot more than Harden ever has. Baiting is now known as Trae Young. Last year, he was box office.

Edited February 16, 2021 by NBASupes

[AHF]

50 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ouch 

 

That is very damning.  Last night was a winnable game in the fourth quarter but we missed some open shots, gave up some scores and gradually let them pull away.  It is a too often repeated pattern with this team especially over the last couple weeks.  It is a brutal experience as a fan to watch that happen over and over.

[hawkzlova123]

Dunn

Bogi

Hunter 

Rondo(he played us)

Get well soon!

 

[Buzzard]

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Naw, don't put that on Cam. Cam actually plays good defense and has skill. Josh Jackson is all tools and athleticism. He's starting to find his shot but he's not that talented. Cam is all talent, tools, and skills he can't actually use due to his shit ball handling. 

Josh has a lot of stuff he is dealing with, that said, Josh can be a good player in the future now that his mind is right. 

GLeague would probably be the best thing in the world for Cam. With all the injuries, its not something the Hawks can afford to do. Reddish is back to being our most inefficient starter and its pitiful. If you don't want to compare him to Jackson. Lets compare him to another overrated wing in Josh Richardson. I would take Richardson right now all day long and its not close.

The Reddish Hype Train has left the station. You just forgot to board Supes.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Buzzard

[marco102]

59 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He hasn't been fun for the common fan. He's baiting a lot more than Harden ever has. Baiting is now known as Trae Young. Last year, he was box office.

That's not true at all.  This is the narrative that blew up with analytical twitter and that made up many fans minds.  

[Wretch]

On Trae - I'm just not going to entertain a lot of conversation here.  I'll give you guys shot selection on critical possessions.  Absolutely.  Tightening up defensively, sure.  He didn't just lose court vision and clutch scoring overnight.  He's still elite at both and agree to disagree if you feel otherwise.  Side note - this will come back and bite some of you in the ass lol.  

What Trae needs is a 2nd prolific offensive compliment.  Not just a guy that feeds off of him, but someone who can create for themselves and others.  As it were, we are a 2-man game with a lot of other players that can't hit shots when it counts.  I was really excited to see if Hunter could continue to grow into that player.  Typical Hawks luck with that injury - pisses me off something serious.  As a whole, I think we'd be far more respectable with a healthy squad.  Injuries are killing us.

On Cam - Dude has zero confidence and looks lost/confused on what he wants to do with the ball sometimes.  He really needs room to grow.  Our "win now" mode along with injuries to players ahead of him is making life miserable for Cam.  I think we are less concerned with him if Bogi is playing.  Injuries, injuries, injuries....

On closing out games - also not a conversation for me.  That's how young and inexperienced teams are.  It takes a lot of fine tuning to find a formula that works.  The right coach, the right complimentary stars, the right bench, the right offense, the right rotations.  We look like a .500 team and to me, that's perfectly fine.  Hate to keep throwing it out there, but with the inuries...we look about as good as I'd expect.

On LP - Another non-conversation for me.  I suppose I've always expected that we'd replace him.  He was brought in for a purpose and he is no longer needed for that purpose.  He was a development coach.  We are no longer trying to develop as a priority.  We are trying to transform this team into a winner and eventually a contender.  We need a coach that knows how to win and how to get a team into contention.  We've got LP for now, but it is what it is.  I expect changes between now and the summer, unless we shock the world with a ridiculously strong finish. 

[Gray Mule]

Prevent defense.  The Falcons have been famous for this for several seasons.  All it does for them is prevent winning.  Prevent offense.  Run the ball three times for 5 yards.  Punt.  Repeat.

Atlanta and their 4th quarter woes.  Playing not to lose and then it blows up in their face.  Game after game.  Doing the same thing, over and over and expecting different results.

Blame Capela?  He was there last night.  In the game before, he was on the pine.  Same results.  Trae getting the team involved.  Assists improving.  OK for three quarters.  Adjust.  Hawks need last season's Trae in the 4th quarter.  Ball hog.  Hero ball.  Whatever you wish to call it.

4th quarter defense?  Why does every team we meet suddenly become elite?  They suddenly can't miss and the Hawks couldn't make a 3 to save themselves.  Occasionally, yes.  But, every game?

What all the other NBA teams are doing to the Hawks, we should be able to do the same to them.  Their players are not that much better than ours.  Usually, this Hawk team is "right there" with our competition through three quarters.  This has to mean, we are just as good as they are.  Suddenly, it's the 4th quarter.  Our opponent adjusts,  Hawks do not.  Opponent explodes.  Game over.

Ground hog day movie must have had this year's Hawk team in mind.

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, Wretch said:

On Trae - I'm just not going to entertain a lot of conversation here.  I'll give you guys shot selection on critical possessions.  Absolutely.  Tightening up defensively, sure.  He didn't just lose court vision and clutch scoring overnight.  He's still elite at both and agree to disagree if you feel otherwise.  Side note - this will come back and bite some of you in the ass lol.  

What Trae needs is a 2nd prolific offensive compliment.  Not just a guy that feeds off of him, but someone who can create for themselves and others.  As it were, we are a 2-man game with a lot of other players that can't hit shots when it counts.  I was really excited to see if Hunter could continue to grow into that player.  Typical Hawks luck with that injury - pisses me off something serious.  As a whole, I think we'd be far more respectable with a healthy squad.  Injuries are killing us.

On Cam - Dude has zero confidence and looks lost/confused on what he wants to do with the ball sometimes.  He really needs room to grow.  Our "win now" mode along with injuries to players ahead of him is making life miserable for Cam.  I think we are less concerned with him if Bogi is playing.  Injuries, injuries, injuries....

On closing out games - also not a conversation for me.  That's how young and inexperienced teams are.  It takes a lot of fine tuning to find a formula that works.  The right coach, the right complimentary stars, the right bench, the right offense, the right rotations.  We look like a .500 team and to me, that's perfectly fine.  Hate to keep throwing it out there, but with the inuries...we look about as good as I'd expect.

On LP - Another non-conversation for me.  I suppose I've always expected that we'd replace him.  He was brought in for a purpose and he is no longer needed for that purpose.  He was a development coach.  We are no longer trying to develop as a priority.  We are trying to transform this team into a winner and eventually a contender.  We need a coach that knows how to win and how to get a team into contention.  We've got LP for now, but it is what it is.  I expect changes between now and the summer, unless we shock the world with a ridiculously strong finish. 

Man this is perfect.   This is exactly how i feel.  The bolded is especially true.   Trae is the only guy who has any sort of composure down the stretch.  Sure he makes mistakes too but he's not shaky.  He makes mistakes of aggression not panic.   

If i'm going to ding LP last night it's for having Cam in the game.   We needed a secondary play maker.   Mays or even BG would have helped. but we could play this game all night.  If those guys had been in and we still lost then I'd be blaming him for that.   

I have to say that I'm tired of hearing LP talk to the media.   I've realized that he has a certain personality and we've all worked with people like this.   LP is really smart and he knows what he is supposed to be saying but his impulse is to not admit mistakes.  Sometimes after hearing it he'll come back and be more diplomatic but it just seems like his go to is 'the gameplan was good, we put the right guys out there, they know what to do but they don't execute'.     I guess i just find his leadership lacking from the outside looking in.   That may not be the case within the team I don't really know.   

8 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Hawks need last season's Trae in the 4th quarter.  Ball hog.  Hero ball.  Whatever you wish to call it.

Yep.

[Buzzard]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

LP doing his best job of not saying, Cam lost us this f***ing game offensively. 

They are both costing us games. Reddish for not knowing that shooting 26.1 from three means don't shoot threes in the NBA. Coach Pierce for not teaching Reddish this basic concept. Then we have the small ball college lineups Pierce is so fond of.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Watchman]

4 hours ago, Carmine said:

Collins is empty calories, no max for you.

That pretty much describes everyone on our roster.  Why single Collins out?

[macdaddy]

Quote

John Collins on how the Hawks turn things around: “We’ve got to come out with more effort, energy. We need heart. We need to believe that we can win. We have to have that belief that we can & will do the things necessary to win; I believe it starts there.”

I love JC but i think if this is what everyone from the coach on down is believing then it's not going to be significantly better.   It's execution, it's decision making, and it's having a plan to get buckets.   

Knicks scored exactly 1 more bucket than we did in the 4th.   They went to the line more though.   Our defense wasn't that bad in the fourth but 22 points isn't going to win you many games.