Official Game Thread: Hawks at Pistons

[JTB]

27 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

@Diesel, you know what helps Ja

SF got a 7'1 wingspan 

PF is 7ft with 7'6 wingspan

C is big Steven Adams

A lot of protection.

I don’t know who I mentioned this too but I said a while back that I was a strong believer that Trae would benefit from a long lineup around him that can protect him defensively and I had a few disagree.

I think it’s a fact that if Trae gets size around him we would be better off.

[JTB]

31 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Trade Capela for Ayton

Trade JC and whatever else for Zion

Trae

Bogi

?/Hunter maybe/random 3&D SF 

Zion

Ayton

 

I'm not saying it is perfect but you have 2.5 star/superstar players in your starting lineup.

Glad someone said it because every time JC is mentioned you will get treated like a hater but call me a damn fool if Zion is healthy even with less games played in the nba at this point if Zion is healthy he is more impactful in this league than collins even if someone can prove Collins has a better all around basketball game. Impact is a real thing!

with that said I’d be scared to make that trade unless zion was already 30-40 pounds less. And then if possible I would wait to make the trade as close to training camp as possible so I’d know what weight  size he is lol 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, marco102 said:

On a lighter note. 

At least the Hawks aren't fighting on the bench. 

 

 

LOL . . Heat Culture

 

Go ahead and request that trade Jimmy.  They don't love you no more.

 

Huerter / Bogi / 2 1st rd picks for Jimmy  ( ugh @ his contract, but we need a dog on the team, even if that dog eats its own young and the coach )

 

[benhillboy]

6 hours ago, marco102 said:

On a lighter note. 

At least the Hawks aren't fighting on the bench. 

 

Damn.  Obviously Jimmy was in the wrong, never seen Spo that pissed. 1 seed problems lol.

Edited March 24, 2022 by benhillboy

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Shut up Nate!

 

 

 

Yeah . . . Nate needs to be smacked in the head like a 3 Stooge for that comment. 

Of course we need his rebounding.  That's been obvious since Christmas.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You can't be that bad on defense and not be a major part of the problem but that said, Trae is what he is.

This is on Travis. He gotta build a squad that sorely fits Trae. His strengths and weaknesses 

 

 

If Trae got lit up on a nightly basis, I would agree with you.  But he doesn't.  Even when teams specifically go at Trae, they can't sustain it because the guy that Trae normally guards, isn't a great one on one player. 

He's too small to be an effective help defender, especially around the rim.  What I want him to do better, is play the passing lanes and just being a smarter defender.  I've seen evidence of that this season.

The team overall has horrendous defensive breakdowns, especially in transition.  Our wings are the real culprits in our defensive, with their unwillingness ( or incapability ) to play tougher, whether it be mixing it up on the boards, or going harder to the basket to get lay ups or draw fouls. Our wings take the easy way out on both ends of the floor, something that I can't accuse Trae of doing.

Our Hustle stats tell it all about the Hawks, and our activity on defense. 

When it comes to getting deflections, drawing charges, and recovering offensive and defensive loose balls . . . the only Hawks that rank in the top 50 in ANY of those categories, are John Collins ( 0.24 charges drawn per game = 14 total on the year ) ranking 12th in the league . . and Clint Capela ( 0.20 charges drawn per game = 13 total on the year ).

Hawks rank 23rd in blocks, despite having 3 guys that ( if Okongwu had enough minutes played to qualify ), would rank in the top 30 in blocks.  Delon and Bogi are just outside the top 50 in steals, a stat in which the Hawks rank 24th as a team.

 

Only value our wings have, is shooting.  If the shots aren't falling, they literally cannot contribute any other way.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

With Trae, you gotta understand he maximize bigs and the usage of screens and flares. CP3 does it as well but CP3 doesn't spam nor does he want too. CP3 is Thanos. He's all about balance. That can drive star teammates crazy like Blake Griffin and James Harden but some dudes love it and all role players love it. 

Trae is about Trae balance. Which is a mix of corner 3s created for others, putting a lot of pressure every possession on the defense, and maximize spacing with deep threes and starting the offense from the logo which drives defenses CRAZY!

Trae ball works. It's just spammy and not super complex although Trae is complex. Extremely complex. 

That said, it has its downsides like Bron ball, Luka ball, Harden ball, etc. Fit is difficult. Trae ball requires a secondary ball handler that must score on all three levels. That's a major cost requirement. Those aren't cheap, see Bogi and what occasionally Kev. 

The 3 is the least important position that I've identified in Trae ball. He really just needs to do a lot of work on D, cut when needed and stay active without the ball and make open 3s at a high clip without being in rhythm at all. 

The 4 is critical. JC fits it well but his lack of size and he needs to be protected in certain matches, with Trae, that's a no no. You can't have two players who need to be protected. That's why he has to go

The 5 is the most critical. Everything Trae does is based off the 5. I would pay a massive premium for this position. Getting Capela was critical but you reached your peak with him. Upgrade time. 

 

So it's official.

Trade for Bradley Beal

Trade for Robert Covington

And we're good.

 

Trae - Beal - Covington - Collins - Capela

 

Autobots . . Roll out!

 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

Even if we just got Ayton and kept JC it would help tremendously to have an actual offense at center. Capela is a literal one trick pony. Ayton has a full game. Night and day difference would help our team to help spread the offense and force teams to adjust. 

Alright.. so let's call the trade...

Cap, OO, and a 1st  for Ayton.   Let's say that Travis was able to negotiate it as a future first (2024)...  

The draft, we need size... 

Jalen Duren   & Max Christie. 

 

Now... Ayton is not just going to go for Cap straight up.   He's still picked #2 overall in his draft.  He's still a 17/10 Center.  Phoenix will try to bleed us since we don't have the cash to outright offer him a max contract.   From our perspective, if we bring in Ayton, we no longer need OO.  OO is not a PF.  OO is not a BU Center for the rest of his career either. 

Now look at our team:

Ayton/Duren

JC/Gallo/Jalen

Hunter/Christie

Bogi/Kev

Trae/Coop

We have the same wings.  We probably end up trading Gallo.. hopefully, we can get a 2 and a BU PG. 

 

 

[benhillboy]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

LOL . . Heat Culture

 

Go ahead and request that trade Jimmy.  They don't love you no more.

 

Huerter / Bogi / 2 1st rd picks for Jimmy  ( ugh @ his contract, but we need a dog on the team, even if that dog eats its own young and the coach )

 

Jimmy and UD probably laughed about it an hour later.  Jimmy is retiring there as he should.  He’d fit great in Memphis but they don’t cast off players like Brooks who helped build their culture.

[benhillboy]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 

 

KD got his eyes on his next coattail to ride.  Taylor ain’t allowing them pitty pat ass screens tho.  What a cake.

[terrell]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Alright.. so let's call the trade...

Cap, OO, and a 1st  for Ayton.   Let's say that Travis was able to negotiate it as a future first (2024)...  

The draft, we need size... 

Jalen Duren   & Max Christie. 

 

Now... Ayton is not just going to go for Cap straight up.   He's still picked #2 overall in his draft.  He's still a 17/10 Center.  Phoenix will try to bleed us since we don't have the cash to outright offer him a max contract.   From our perspective, if we bring in Ayton, we no longer need OO.  OO is not a PF.  OO is not a BU Center for the rest of his career either. 

Now look at our team:

Ayton/Duren

JC/Gallo/Jalen

Hunter/Christie

Bogi/Kev

Trae/Coop

We have the same wings.  We probably end up trading Gallo.. hopefully, we can get a 2 and a BU PG. 

 

 

Trade JC too...Hunter/Kev also.  We dont need any soft players around Trae.. All of those guys get pushed around.. And no team fears any of em.....

Keep Trae,  and Delon, Bogi for bench.. Thats it..

Not really sure if Ayton has that dog in him either... Id make that trade though.. lol

Edited March 24, 2022 by terrell

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Trade JC too...

Why and for who?

Terrell, I realize that your thing is to trade away everybody but Trae... and that's novel.. however, this stint without JC is showing just how much we need JC.  I hear the cries for Zion.   Zion is not going to be a long termer in this league (IMO).   Moreover, he would be another guy we would have to hide on defense. 

So.. you tell me who we can trade JC for that would make sense for us.. then tell me how do we replace JC.

 

[terrell]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Why and for who?

Terrell, I realize that your thing is to trade away everybody but Trae... and that's novel.. however, this stint without JC is showing just how much we need JC.  I hear the cries for Zion.   Zion is not going to be a long termer in this league (IMO).   Moreover, he would be another guy we would have to hide on defense. 

So.. you tell me who we can trade JC for that would make sense for us.. then tell me how do we replace JC.

 

We suck with JC too.. Collins is weak sauce. 

[Gray Mule]

Nate proved his point to everyone.  He played JJ and the Hawks lost.

See.  You can prove most anything if you just try.  JJ did play meaningful minutes.  In our 21 point loss, Jalen Johnson had a (+3) for his efforts.  Yep.  This is correct.  

Didn't always end up where he should be on defense.  What did we expect?  It was his 1st time playing with some of the starting five.  Some of them still do this on defense.  

On the offensive end, JJ looked like he belonged.  Like he should have been considered ahead of TLC when the Hawks took the floor in the 2nd half.  Oh, well.  That's water under the bridge.  The future awaits.  Will we see more of JJ the short remainder of the season?  Or, was this a one shot deal?

After last night's game, everything is turned around backward with the sun setting in the east...

[kg01]

I liked what I saw in Johnson out there.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I like looking at Johnson. 

There.  That's my silver lining.

Oh and I got some beachfront property for all y'all that're still on the train that believes Zion will be anything but Greg Oden 2.0.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, JTB said:

I don’t know who I mentioned this too but I said a while back that I was a strong believer that Trae would benefit from a long lineup around him that can protect him defensively and I had a few disagree.

I think it’s a fact that if Trae gets size around him we would be better off.

That's what Cam and Hunter were supposed to be - long with defense.  Both have disappointed.  

[benhillboy]

I didn’t realize Udonis was from Miami.  I think Jimmy said something along the lines of “your old ass ain’t out here you just talking sh*t and stealing money” ($2.6M to sit and holler to be exact). UD didn’t take it well.

I think Jimmy would dust him off though.

[Atlantaholic]

I actually feel like Trae was playing pretty good defense yesterday. 

[Atlantaholic]

I think the main culprit last night was Nate. Easily. I knew the game was lost once he announced the starters. That starting unit gave up something like a 4-25 run in the first 6 minutes of the second half and it was all she wrote. 

[bleachkit]

38 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's what Cam and Hunter were supposed to be - long with defense.  Both have disappointed.  

I think it's still the right idea. Gotta go back to the well to find one.