Official Game Thread: Hawks at Raptors (1 of 2)

[Afro]

This city desperately needs a boycott of its teams(not the Braves) 

The owners were stuck with dont care at all about the product on the court/field and as long as they're rolling in the dough, why would they? 

[Atlantaholic]

3 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Tony has made it clear many times through actions he isn’t concerned with the on floor product.  That’s totally fine with me, he can pussyfoot around with media and casual fans all he wants.  

He’s likely had multiple face to face meetings with his HR and demographics people who told him Trae over Luka was the right move (for him it definitely was). He wouldn’t send his assistant to sit in on analytics meetings if the Hawks actually have them, I’m not sure.

I need to learn how to get in with the shareholders, dude brought back $2.6 billion off a $730 million purchase.  Quiet as kept actually winning isn't even remotely comparable to maximizing profit in any sports owner’s eyes.  

In defense of that specific move, we could trade Trae for Luka straight up and there wouldn't be much of a change on the record of this team, maybe 1 more win 2 tops. 

[NBASupes]

35 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Everyone knows we have too many fringe guys.  Really, the problem is we lack guys that don't have legit talent.

At the end of games, we're almost solely reliant on Trae or DJ making a shot, especially since the coach ( until recently ) refuses to play Bogi.  Our front line is also failing us on both ends of the court.  Can't get stops.  Can't get rebounds.  Can't create their own shot.

Your plan is to get some more fringe players that might fit better.  It's a minimal plan.

My plan is to get a true talent on the front line, while doing all of the things that 3 fringe players can do.  My plan is swing for the damn fences.

To not think that a player like Siakam wouldn't help this team immensely, is asinine. Siakam can even plan small ball center at the end of games, if need be.

Adding fringe players that made us all feel good 2.5 seasons ago, and expecting them to play at that level, is unrealistic ( especially in the case of Gallo ). 

 

Talent wins in this league.  We don't have nearly enough frontcourt talent.

Get the high end player, THEN go get the fillers.

 

You can do both, if you want to.

 

It's not that Siakam won't help. He just won't help at that salary and then you add the cost of trade. It's just no feasible. The player we need is better than everyone currently on this team to be a contender. To compete, we need to massively upgrade the bench. 

That's feasible. Delon, Gallo, etc. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The Hawks were ( -13 ) in minutes that Capela and OO didn't play with each other. 

 

 

Actually, the lineups that Capela and OO didn't play with each other was better, due to the fact that we were +11 at the end of the 1st, with OO, Bey, and Garrison on the frontline, but mainly because Trae went off and scored 9 points to end the quarter.

Non Capela + OO lineups were as follows:

• 1st quarter ( start of game with Capela + Bey ) = ( -6 )
• 1st quarter ( end of quarter with OO + Bey ) = ( +11 ) 
• 2nd quarter ( start of quarter with OO + Bey ) = ( -1 )
• 2nd quarter ( end of quarter with Capela + Bey ) = ( -2 )
• 3rd quarter ( start of quarter with Capela + Bey ) = ( -5 )
• 3rd quarter ( end of quarter with OO + Bey ) = ( 0 )
• 4th quarter ( start of quarter with OO + Bey ) = ( 0 )
• 4th quarter ( end of quarter with Capela + Bey ) = ( +1 ) . . . only because of the scoring flurry at the end.

So instead of ( -11 ), the Hawks were ( -2 )

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

In defense of that specific move, we could trade Trae for Luka straight up and there wouldn't be much of a change on the record of this team, maybe 1 more win 2 tops. 

If we had Luka, we would have been in 1st till JJ got hurt. We just don't have the depth but maybe with Luka, we would be willing to pay the LT since we aren't with Trae. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Actually, the lineups that Capela and OO didn't play with each other was better, due to the fact that we were +11 at the end of the 1st, with OO, Bey, and Garrison on the frontline, but mainly because Trae went off and scored 9 points to end the quarter.

Non Capela + OO lineups were as follows:

• 1st quarter ( start of game with Capela + Bey ) = ( -6 )
• 1st quarter ( end of quarter with OO + Bey ) = ( +11 ) 
• 2nd quarter ( start of quarter with OO + Bey ) = ( -1 )
• 2nd quarter ( end of quarter with Capela + Bey ) = ( -2 )
• 3rd quarter ( start of quarter with Capela + Bey ) = ( -5 )
• 3rd quarter ( end of quarter with OO + Bey ) = ( 0 )
• 4th quarter ( start of quarter with OO + Bey ) = ( 0 )
• 4th quarter ( end of quarter with Capela + Bey ) = ( +1 ) . . . only because of the scoring flurry at the end.

So instead of ( -11 ), the Hawks were ( -2 )

I hate +/- because sometimes it's good because of one player doing work or one player being ass. It don't really have real impact. Last year, our starting lineup was the best in the league under Nate and it was all BS. The numbers lied. When they needed to come together, they stunk in the 4th quarter. 

I really like to use common sense if you watch every game. It can really show what's happening 

[Spud2nique]

Just finished watching this one. We were in it and played back and forth with them but it seemed that we were still the team that was being hunted. Size matters and Siak and OG put the down on us when needed. They are the exact pieces we need around Trae, big physical bigs. 
 

Trae was spectacular with those deep 3’s and the dimes all night. OO had some nice looking threes from the corner and did a lil work and looked a bit better. 
 

By the way, WTF IS WRONG WITH DENNIS, boy has some screw loose in his head, he’s an agitating fcker all night. When he was on our side and donkey 🫏 flicked Cousins in the it was funny, but this putting you head into a player’s ball fake zone and then acting like you were struck with a baseball bat, it’s too much.

We have no METHODICAL PLUNGE to our style of ball , we hit and run, you can’t win consistently like that.

Get big, and play D!

GO HAWKS!!!!!

[Atlantaholic]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If we had Luka, we would have been in 1st till JJ got hurt. We just don't have the depth but maybe with Luka, we would be willing to pay the LT since we aren't with Trae. 

Nah, how does that make sense? No way we pay the luxury with or without Luka. We brought in DJM at the cost of an insane amount of assets to pair with Trae... and immediately made moves to stay under the LT. After making it to the ECF we made no effort whatsoever to bring anyone impactful and didn't pay the LT. 

[benhillboy]

9 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

In defense of that specific move, we could trade Trae for Luka straight up and there wouldn't be much of a change on the record of this team, maybe 1 more win 2 tops. 

Trae has played 374 regular season games amassing 35 Win Shares.  27 playoff games, 1.2 Win Share.

Luka has played 352 regular season games totaling 43 Win Shares.  28 playoff games with 3.1 Win Shares.

I’m not even a Luka guy but his rebounding alone places him in a whole different level of winning impact, most clearly shown in the playoffs.  The draft slots of the players picked to surround Trae over the years has also been head and shoulders above Dallas’.  All Luka needs is a real wing defender, true pure shooter, and a young rim protect/ lob Big and he and his team will eat.  Luka could take last year’s bench with Jalen and absolutely demolish last year's starting unit with John.

[terrell]

26 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

In defense of that specific move, we could trade Trae for Luka straight up and there wouldn't be much of a change on the record of this team, maybe 1 more win 2 tops. 

 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Luka could take last year’s bench with Jalen and absolutely demolish last year's starting unit with John.

Reasoned argument followed by wild hyperbole?  Last year in Dallas' most important game of the season he couldn't beat us and shot 8-21 22/7/7 in an OT game with their season on the line.  And I'm pretty sure Kyrie/Bullock/Powell/Hardaway/Green/Wood/Mcgee were better than our bench.  Then they tanked like wimps because they were scared of the playin.  But yeah he's the goat i guess. 

[terrell]

11 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Trae has played 374 regular season games amassing 35 Win Shares.  27 playoff games, 1.2 Win Share.

Luka has played 352 regular season games totaling 43 Win Shares.  28 playoff games with 3.1 Win Shares.

I’m not even a Luka guy but his rebounding alone places him in a whole different level of winning impact, most clearly shown in the playoffs.  The draft slots of the players picked to surround Trae over the years has also been head and shoulders above Dallas’.  All Luka needs is a real wing defender, true pure shooter, and a young rim protect/ lob Big and he and his team will eat.  Luka could take last year’s bench with Jalen and absolutely demolish last year's starting unit with John.

Hawks fans are delusional.. This is a totally different team if Luka was on it just based on his Size at the PG position..

We dont have ANYBODY who can get easy buckets like him.. If our 3's arent falling we're f***ed...

Dude just took out the Lakers with Tim Hardaway as his 2nd best player.. lol.. We cant even beat most bad teams with 2 "all star guards"..

Edited December 14, 2023 by terrell

[benhillboy]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I hate +/- because sometimes it's good because of one player doing work or one player being ass. It don't really have real impact. Last year, our starting lineup was the best in the league under Nate and it was all BS. The numbers lied. When they needed to come together, they stunk in the 4th quarter. 

I really like to use common sense if you watch every game. It can really show what's happening 

If you hate +/- you’ll make a lot of errors in analysis. At its core it’s the most sophisticated tool out (of course many outlets have tweaked and adjusted it to one up each other but it all comes out looking pretty much the same).  It looks over the entire league for every second played, no one can watch that much. 
 

I been following it since I took a shine to Steph and Jimmy.  Trust me it tells the truth way more than it lies.  When people thought Carmelo was such a great player they had to come up with a metric that shows how empty stats can be for those who can’t clearly see it.

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, terrell said:

9 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Trae has played 374 regular season games amassing 35 Win Shares.  27 playoff games, 1.2 Win Share.

Luka has played 352 regular season games totaling 43 Win Shares.  28 playoff games with 3.1 Win Shares.

I’m not even a Luka guy but his rebounding alone places him in a whole different level of winning impact, most clearly shown in the playoffs.  The draft slots of the players picked to surround Trae over the years has also been head and shoulders above Dallas’.  All Luka needs is a real wing defender, true pure shooter, and a young rim protect/ lob Big and he and his team will eat.  Luka could take last year’s bench with Jalen and absolutely demolish last year's starting unit with John.

 

Jalen was ass last year, and the notion Luka maximizes anyone is funny to me. Have you watched him play?

[JayBirdHawk]

31 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If we had Luka, we would have been in 1st till JJ got hurt. We just don't have the depth but maybe with Luka, we would be willing to pay the LT since we aren't with Trae. 

I hate when you guys do this....the roster construction if we had kept Luka would have been different so it's not just a switch of one for the other as is today.  We probably would not have drafted Huerter in the same draft, our record might have been different so no #8 and #10 picks the following year, so no Hunter and Cam and on and on and on and on and on. 

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

The draft slots of the players picked to surround Trae over the years has also been head and shoulders above Dallas’.

Let's not gloss over the fact that it's because Dallas traded their picks for 'Allstars' Porzingas and Kyrie.

 

[benhillboy]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Reasoned argument followed by wild hyperbole?  Last year in Dallas' most important game of the season he couldn't beat us and shot 8-21 22/7/7 in an OT game with their season on the line.  And I'm pretty sure Kyrie/Bullock/Powell/Hardaway/Green/Wood/Mcgee were better than our bench.  Then they tanked like wimps because they were scared of the playin.  But yeah he's the goat i guess. 

I wouldn’t consider having Kyrie, Bullock, or Tim Jr on my squad for one second.  I’d love Powell, Green, and McGee (as an emergency) as reserves.  Indifferent to Wood.

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Luka could take last year’s bench with Jalen and absolutely demolish last year's starting unit with John.

why did he not do that in Dallas last year?

[macdaddy]

So what's the excuse for this again?

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, benhillboy said:

I wouldn’t consider having Kyrie, Bullock, or Tim Jr on my squad for one second.  I’d love Powell, Green, and McGee (as an emergency) as reserves.  Indifferent to Wood.

Prefer AJ Griffin and Justin Holiday?