Official Game Thread: Hawks at Raptors (1 of 2)

[terrell]

22 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That goes back to our depth or lack thereof. Hawks need real functional talent on their bench. Guys who should be able to on a given night provide at least 50% of what a starter gives if he has to start. But when ducking the tax is the rule of law - this is what we get.

This is a poorly constructed team and that shit was obvious to even a regular ass fan like me before the season started...

It’s either incompetence or cheapness or BOTH that caused Hawks F.O. to trot this roster out this year.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by terrell

[Diesel]

Our depth sucks right now...

Bufkin, Gueye - Injured. 

AJ - away on personal.. but that don't matter, he's been bad.

So when we lose our 2 starting wings...   We have Matthews, Mathews, Bruno and another old dude (Mills) that we can play. 

Think about that for a second... One Must play.

The bad part from a FO perspective.. is Mathews and Bruno were trade fodder.  We actually went out and signed Matthews and Mills. 

Let's do this... A comparison to make you think about it...

This offseason, the Lakers went out and signed:

Jared Vanderbilt, Cam Reddish, Taurean Prince, Jaxon Hayes, and Christian Woods.    

All of those guys can start somewhere. 

We went out and signed Matthews and Mills. 

Snyder should feel sad in his heart. 

 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Break it down then.

Better yet, what is YOUR plan?

It's ass. It's a terrible post. 

It's clear we don't have the depth with injuries to compete. It's not even like Bey playing bad, we just got nothing on the bench outside of Bogi. 

The Hawks still have a depth issue. 

We all said what needs to be done

Go get Delon and Gallo back from Washington for two 2nds and Mills as well as a salary fillers. 

Go get Kai Jones 

Trade Capela for a true 5 who can score an easy basket like Vooch. 

It's not really that hard. 

Just those moves along with JJ getting healthy again will turn us into a .580 team. 

The NBA is harder than ever and the margin is smaller than ever. We just got too many finge guys like Wes, Mills, and Garrison. 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, nathan2331 said:

It wasn't a fatal decision, but you don't get better trading solid starters for nothing in return.

If I may... I mostly agree, of course, but I go farther, of course...

 

More than a "decision," it's a fatal "event."

And not for what it means to the micro... to just the 2023 season and its roster and its fortunes... but rather for what doing that thing they did says about the macro... all of everything... now and later... for as long as the True to Atlanta (*cough cough*) owner is at the helm, prioritizing what he prioritizes.

 

And look... it's not that he doesn't want a championship. He does.

But.

It's that he wants a championship secondarily. It's that he wants a championship as a function of his highest priority... ie, there will be more revenue as a consequence, so of course he wants a championship.

But until then, you good folks will just have to hope for some especially good luck. He's going to keep some tight controls over his risk exposure.

 

[Mikey]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's ass. It's a terrible post. 

It's clear we don't have the depth with injuries to compete. It's not even like Bey playing bad, we just got nothing on the bench outside of Bogi. 

The Hawks still have a depth issue. 

We all said what needs to be done

Go get Delon and Gallo back from Washington for two 2nds and Mills as well as a salary fillers. 

Go get Kai Jones 

Trade Capela for a true 5 who can score an easy basket like Vooch. 

It's not really that hard. 

Just those moves along with JJ getting healthy again will turn us into a .580 team. 

The NBA is harder than ever and the margin is smaller than ever. We just got too many finge guys like Wes, Mills, and Garrison. 

“Vuc” and “Kai jones” are not helping this team. You keep talking about easy buckets but offense IS NOT AN ISSUE. It doesn’t matter how the baskets come they get them. Add another cone on defense and instead of giving up 125-130 every night we will give up 140. Your plan would set us further back then his plan (and the plan that Quin wants the team to take). Getting good players helps yoy win games not bad players. 

[Mikey]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Imagine Siakam and JJ as our PF and SF ... who both can rebound, pass, and fly in transition.

Who cares if they're not league average 3 point shooters. They won't be high volume 3 point takers anyway.

As long as they can shoot 50%+ FG, that would be gravy. And we could finally play a regular frontline to offset our smallish backcourt.

Siakam has his career best 2pt % as well this year lol. He’s no longer forcing mid ranges and is attacking the basket. Good defender can push the pace Quin wants and gets us downhill which we struggle with right now but sure people going away from this. Never seen so many people opposed to adding a legitimate all star player

[TheBigETrain]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Our depth sucks right now...

Bufkin, Gueye - Injured. 

AJ - away on personal.. but that don't matter, he's been bad.

So when we lose our 2 starting wings...   We have Matthews, Mathews, Bruno and another old dude (Mills) that we can play. 

Think about that for a second... One Must play.

The bad part from a FO perspective.. is Mathews and Bruno were trade fodder.  We actually went out and signed Matthews and Mills. 

Let's do this... A comparison to make you think about it...

This offseason, the Lakers went out and signed:

Jared Vanderbilt, Cam Reddish, Taurean Prince, Jaxon Hayes, and Christian Woods.    

All of those guys can start somewhere. 

We went out and signed Matthews and Mills. 

Snyder should feel sad in his heart. 

 

 

One of the first things Quin did when he took over was shorten the bench. He was his choice to play 8 players only. I blame this more on coaching not on player personnel.

 

Quin has his favorites and is very stubborn to change it up.

[Plainview1981]

This team is where it is for many reasons....

-Bad ownership

-Bad front office 

-Underperforming young players

-Too many scrubs on the bench

-Bad drafting

-Injuries

-Losing talent

-Miss management of money

It's like management thought they could just sign anyone and it would all work out.

Will Snyder even make it through his first season?

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, Mikey said:

“Vuc” and “Kai jones” are not helping this team. You keep talking about easy buckets but offense IS NOT AN ISSUE. It doesn’t matter how the baskets come they get them. Add another cone on defense and instead of giving up 125-130 every night we will give up 140. Your plan would set us further back then his plan (and the plan that Quin wants the team to take). Getting good players helps yoy win games not bad players. 

Easy baskets is what this team lacks the most. Everything gotta be difficult and it's even harder without JJ transition offense. 

Kai is depth and he adds needed athleticism. 

The Hawks offense just ain't it. It's one of those offensive rating looks great but the film, not so much

[SalvorMallow]

24 minutes ago, TheBigETrain said:

One of the first things Quin did when he took over was shorten the bench. He was his choice to play 8 players only. I blame this more on coaching not on player personnel.

 

Quin has his favorites and is very stubborn to change it up.

What are you suggesting here? You think the reason we're losing is because Quin didn't go deep enough into our awful bench? 

[HawkingAwesome]

I guess the trae trade cursed us

[HawkingAwesome]

I guess the trae trade cursed us

[Sothron]

I blame Tony Ressler. I am begging Brad Rowland to go off in one of his Locked On Hawks podcasts to say something about this. 

Tony Ressler is the seventh richest owner in the ENTIRE NBA. You have to be a multi billionaire to own a NBA team. He's the 7th richest cat in that elite club.

And not one time has he paid the LT. Not once. They trade players for nothing to avoid paying the LT. They have a massive TPE from Collins trade. Not used. We had the MLE in the offseason. Not used.

Other teams went out and got solid rotation players let alone starters.

We got....old as living f*** Wes Matthew and Patty Mills. I shit you not. It is outright comical that Ressler can tell the media he's serious about winning when he handcuffs the FO like this. 

You aren't winning games let alone contending unless you pay the LT. It has always been this way. That will never change. The NBA as @NBASupes said RIGHT NOW is the most competitive and essentially talent balanced it has ever been in the history of the NBA. I've been a fan since 1979. I know he's right. 

You have to win on the margins in order to win regular season games let along playoff games. Winning in the margins is bringing in good rotation players if not starters. Ressler prohibited our FO from doing that. He forced them to trade JC for nothing to avoid the LT. We have an owners actively making moves AGAINST his own franchise.

We thought Ressler was going to be a savior after the absolute shit show the A$G put us through for YEARS. 

He's not the savior. He's the Anti Christ of NBA owners. He has every tangible means of paying the LT but adamantly refuses to do so. He let a neophyte front office spear headed by his idiot son into giving away future assets for DJM. And...then he closed up the checkbook. You don't go into WIN NOW mode and not pay the LT. It simply does not work. 

We are quite honestly ****ed as a fanbase and a franchise unless Ressler changes his mind and opens his MAMMOTH check book to help this team. The Spurs are laughing at us and rubbing their hands over those first rounders heading their way very soon. We can't even full on blow things up and rebuild with a cheap owner because SAS simply gets our picks.

The only logical choice is to WIN NOW and make trades and sign players and pay the first apron of the LT.

We are literally swapping deck chairs on the Titanic unless that changes. When I told you guys before the season I wasn't really excited about this is why. I am reliving the A$G years all over again. I'm too old for this. God bless @Gray Mule for keeping the faith for all of us old timers. 

[benhillboy]

Tony has made it clear many times through actions he isn’t concerned with the on floor product.  That’s totally fine with me, he can pussyfoot around with media and casual fans all he wants.  

He’s likely had multiple face to face meetings with his HR and demographics people who told him Trae over Luka was the right move (for him it definitely was). He wouldn’t send his assistant to sit in on analytics meetings if the Hawks actually have them, I’m not sure.

I need to learn how to get in with the shareholders, dude brought back $2.6 billion off a $730 million purchase.  Quiet as kept actually winning isn't even remotely comparable to maximizing profit in any sports owner’s eyes.  

Edited December 14, 2023 by benhillboy

[BrazilianHawk]

 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, TheBigETrain said:

One of the first things Quin did when he took over was shorten the bench. He was his choice to play 8 players only. I blame this more on coaching not on player personnel.

 

Quin has his favorites and is very stubborn to change it up.

Even if we had a 9 player rotation or 10 player rotation...  who are you playing?

1. Trae
2. DJ
3. Hunter
4. JJ
5. Capela
6. OO
7. Bogi
8. Saddiq
9. AJ
10. Wes   -37 years old and started 14 games over the last 2 years. 
11. Garrison
12. Patty - 35 years old and was about to start a broadcast career when Fields called him. 
13. Trent 
14. Bruno
15. Bufkin
16. Gueye
17. Lundy
18. Norris 

These are the Hawks that are on our roster this year.  Kinda in order but you can question it.    IN red are the players who were injured or away last night.   In Blue are the players who were in CP and not available last night.   @TheBigETrain wants a 10 player rotation.  Who are you playing?

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

This team is where it is for many reasons....

-Bad ownership

-Bad front office 

-Underperforming young players

-Too many scrubs on the bench

-Bad drafting

-Injuries

-Losing talent

-Miss management of money

It's like management thought they could just sign anyone and it would all work out.

Will Snyder even make it through his first season?

The things in Blue are products of Bad Front office.   The truth is.. I don't know if this FO is bad.  Sometimes, the Buck has to go to the top... and I think this is one of those times. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's ass. It's a terrible post. 

It's clear we don't have the depth with injuries to compete. It's not even like Bey playing bad, we just got nothing on the bench outside of Bogi. 

The Hawks still have a depth issue. 

We all said what needs to be done

Go get Delon and Gallo back from Washington for two 2nds and Mills as well as a salary fillers. 

Go get Kai Jones 

Trade Capela for a true 5 who can score an easy basket like Vooch. 

It's not really that hard. 

Just those moves along with JJ getting healthy again will turn us into a .580 team. 

The NBA is harder than ever and the margin is smaller than ever. We just got too many finge guys like Wes, Mills, and Garrison. 

 

Everyone knows we have too many fringe guys.  Really, the problem is we lack guys that don't have legit talent.

At the end of games, we're almost solely reliant on Trae or DJ making a shot, especially since the coach ( until recently ) refuses to play Bogi.  Our front line is also failing us on both ends of the court.  Can't get stops.  Can't get rebounds.  Can't create their own shot.

Your plan is to get some more fringe players that might fit better.  It's a minimal plan.

My plan is to get a true talent on the front line, while doing all of the things that 3 fringe players can do.  My plan is swing for the damn fences.

To not think that a player like Siakam wouldn't help this team immensely, is asinine. Siakam can even plan small ball center at the end of games, if need be.

Adding fringe players that made us all feel good 2.5 seasons ago, and expecting them to play at that level, is unrealistic ( especially in the case of Gallo ). 

 

Talent wins in this league.  We don't have nearly enough frontcourt talent.

Get the high end player, THEN go get the fillers.

 

You can do both, if you want to.

 

[Mikey]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Easy baskets is what this team lacks the most. Everything gotta be difficult and it's even harder without JJ transition offense. 

Kai is depth and he adds needed athleticism. 

The Hawks offense just ain't it. It's one of those offensive rating looks great but the film, not so much

You can think that and that’s fine but this teams massive defensive help rn. Every single trade should be made with that in mind 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Even if we had a 9 player rotation or 10 player rotation...  who are you playing?

1. Trae
2. DJ
3. Hunter
4. JJ
5. Capela
6. OO
7. Bogi
8. Saddiq
9. AJ
10. Wes   -37 years old and started 14 games over the last 2 years. 
11. Garrison
12. Patty - 35 years old and was about to start a broadcast career when Fields called him. 
13. Trent 
14. Bruno
15. Bufkin
16. Gueye
17. Lundy
18. Norris 

These are the Hawks that are on our roster this year.  Kinda in order but you can question it.    IN red are the players who were injured or away last night.   In Blue are the players who were in CP and not available last night.   @TheBigETrain wants a 10 player rotation.  Who are you playing?

 

Quin is failing the team because he refuses to put a bigger lineup on the floor. He's married to his system, instead of making a full adjustment to the personnel he has to work with.

OO, at the very least, can guard 4s.  That should be his main value right now.  You start OO at the 4 with Capela, and relegate both guys to defend the paint and getting rebounds.  The guards / wings have shown that they've been good enough to provide the scoring.  What we need is a stronger defensive presence up front and on the boards.

You give Bruno minutes on the front line, so that you can continue to play big up front.  Bruno right now, would provide far more value than the Matthews "brothers", who gives us nothing.

 

The Hawks were ( -13 ) in minutes that Capela and OO didn't play with each other.  Wesley Matthews minutes alone, was ( -11 ).  Those 13 minutes that Matthews played, should go to Bruno.  Stay as big as you can on the front line, and stop tossing out useless, non talented wings in the game that can only give you shooting. 

Let Bruno run with that bench unit, then bring in either OO or Capela to overlap with Bruno for a few minutes, before going fully with Capela and OO to close out the 2nd and 4th quarters.  But OO and Capela need to be starting.

 

PF -  Okongwu ( 34 ) - Bey ( 14 )

C - Capela ( 34 ) - Bruno ( 14 )