Official Game Thread: Hawks at Raptors (1 of 2)

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I am on the @NBASupes side of pairing an elite front court player with Trae,

I'm on that train too.  But we also have to have some depth.  It's killing us. 

Bottom line for me is i hate seeing us throw seasons away which is what we've done last season and this so far.   I hope we can turn it around.

[terrell]

2 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

Come on man he was 35 and 17 w/ 48% shooting. To win the game, Trae needs to go 40 and 20? We gotta stop pointing the finger at Trae and look at those around him. The door matts are where I'd start personally. 

I wasnt pointing the finger at Trae.. Just stating facts... I know this roster is trash, doesnt mean he played well late..No one did

Edited December 14, 2023 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm on that train too.  But we also have to have some depth.  It's killing us. 

Bottom line for me is i hate seeing us throw seasons away which is what we've done last season and this so far.   I hope we can turn it around.

All I know is I want a chance, no matter how slim, to start the season with a competitive roster and we have been denied those opportunities for two straight seasons.  You don't know how good a team can be if not given an opportunity if we keep downgrading the talent for little or no return. 

I am exhausted with this now. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

You guys realize Ressler hasnt had an opportunity to go into the tax except mediocre players, right?  I understand you wanted to pay tax— and deal with the roster building ramifications associated with that—for JC, but that doesnt suddenly make JC a good trade piece or put us in a position to upgrade talent.  It just makes us a more expensive team, that is now on a timer to compete, and we finish 6-8 seed range instead of 6-10……

Exactly.. No owner is going into the tax just to keep JC. lol

[hylndr11]

You can chop up the ressler shit sev diff ways, but afawk - they tried to get a deal done this summer and possibly felt they would be able to get it done so let go of JC.  Most everyone was happy with that move, but nothing has happened yet, but they are seeing the reality of some of the decisions especially with recent injuries.  Now how much of that is they tried and couldnt get it done or just straight up lying we can debate that all day but theres not enough evidence either way at this point to keep really going back and forth, we do not have inside info to that degree.

[terrell]

27 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

99% of us hate the DJM move now in hindisght, but you can't shit on the front office and give the owner a pass on that strategy. If the front office and ownership are not on the same page, that is a massive issue. Fact is the DJM move was made to make us a contending team, and instead of buying in to this notion our front office made moves to slash the payroll. We BADLY needed Huerter early on in the year. Playing Justing Holiday's corpse heavy minutes instead of having Huerter for over a month cost us at least 3-4 games in the standings. And you say, well who cares, well, the Hawks played great against Boston in the playoffs, if they had finished 6th or 5th maybe we make another run. The team that made the finals last year was the 8th place Heat. Margins are thin in the east, 2-3 wins makes a difference.

Kings would probably give us Huerter and his 11 points 3 assists on 43%shooting for their pick back.. lol

He'd really help our Defense.. smh

Edited December 14, 2023 by terrell

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, terrell said:

Kings would probably give us Huerter and his 11 points 3 assists on 43%shooting for their pick back.. lol

He'd really help our Defense.. smh

I doubt it.  They want to win and he is a key part of their rotation.  Their need for him is reduced from the time of the trade with the emergence of Malik Monk but their team is based around 6 players and he is one of those 6.  At their 59% win rate, they are pretty much performing where we hoped to be this season.

[theheroatl]

Wtf I love the DJM move.. DJM is helping us despite our frontcourt being all time worst ever 

[Atlantaholic]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Kings would probably give us Huerter and his 11 points 3 assists on 43%shooting for their pick back.. lol

He'd really help our Defense.. smh

Justin Holiday had a -1.3 WAR last year. He was a bottom five player in the NBA, and played 6th man/starter minutes for us for over a month. This year we have Garrison Mathews and Wesley Mathews averaging over 20 combined minutes a game the last several games. They are in the bottom 15-10 in the NBA. Huerter had a 3.5 WAR last year. That's the same amount of WAR as Dejaunte Murray. Yes, we could use Huerter, and yes, he'll be better than any player we are going to be pickingat 20th or whatever. 

[sturt]

2 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

You can chop up the ressler shit sev diff ways, but afawk - they tried to get a deal done this summer and possibly felt they would be able to get it done so let go of JC.  Most everyone was happy with that move,

 

2 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

Now how much of that is they tried and couldnt get it done or just straight up lying we can debate that all day but theres not enough evidence either way at this point to keep really going back and forth, we do not have inside info to that degree.

Yes.

You need a third straight off-season in which a starter is traded for literally no on-court benefit. At least a third, maybe a fourth.

People are too eager to jump to conclusions, they really are.

 

[Gray Mule]

As sorry as our recent Hawk team has been, and it has, injuries have played havoc with all our plans.  There isn't a lot of difference in all NBA teams, when 100% healthy.  Last night Hawks had 2 starters unavailable due to injuries.  They have 2 of their 3 draft picks from last summer, out with injuries.

Hopefully Hunter will be available for our next game (If he's not traded) but the other three are not expected back until after the new year rolls around.  Half of December is gone.  

Can the Hawks recover and get back to winning half their games?  It doesn't look too likely right now.  I feel like this Atlanta Hawk team is overdue for something good to happen to them.  The sooner, the better!

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

You can chop up the ressler shit sev diff ways, but afawk - they tried to get a deal done this summer and possibly felt they would be able to get it done so let go of JC.  Most everyone was happy with that move, but nothing has happened yet, but they are seeing the reality of some of the decisions especially with recent injuries.  Now how much of that is they tried and couldnt get it done or just straight up lying we can debate that all day but theres not enough evidence either way at this point to keep really going back and forth, we do not have inside info to that degree.

I can count the 'happy' on one hand.

 

[theheroatl]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I can count the 'happy' on one hand.

 

Let’s be honest, we wouldn’t have the JJ of now without the JC move so yeah….

 

time for everyone to let go of that one.

 

the fact is, JC was not a good defender and our team defense has been horrid and it hasn’t been address whatsoever for years. 
 

Delon Wright, Alex Caruso, PJ Tucker, we need freakin defenders in the front court and back court

Edited December 14, 2023 by theheroatl

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

99% of us hate the DJM move now in hindisght, but you can't shit on the front office and give the owner a pass on that strategy. I

I don't hate the DJM move...

You guys are funny.  We get an all-NBA player who carries us to the ECFs... further than we have ever been and your idea of pushing the franchise forward is to continue to surround our franchise player with draft pick after draft pick... more Cam Reddish.  more DeAndre Hunter.   More OO.  More AJ.. More Bufkin.  After we lose to Miami, it was clear that we needed more ball handlers and more defensive players.   I don't hate the DJM pick up at all.  Especially since we got a Home town discount on his reup.   Yall act like he not averaging 20/5/4. Dont buy into the media ramblings.  They will always try to find the weak point of the Hawks. 

 

[Diesel]

@sturt has been waiting on this conversation like:

 

[JeffS17]

17 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I don't hate the DJM move...

You guys are funny.  We get an all-NBA player who carries us to the ECFs... further than we have ever been and your idea of pushing the franchise forward is to continue to surround our franchise player with draft pick after draft pick... more Cam Reddish.  more DeAndre Hunter.   More OO.  More AJ.. More Bufkin.  After we lose to Miami, it was clear that we needed more ball handlers and more defensive players.   I don't hate the DJM pick up at all.  Especially since we got a Home town discount on his reup.   Yall act like he not averaging 20/5/4. Dont buy into the media ramblings.  They will always try to find the weak point of the Hawks. 

 

I was cautiously optimistic about the DJ trade, but I had watched next to zero Spurs games and just heard he was a good defender.  Now, with some hindsight and new information, I don't feel like he's a +defender on the perimeter and the new CBA makes those picks we gave away sting even more.  The positive to all of this is we created a lot of value in him as an asset by re-signing to a nice deal, so he can either be our third option of the future or the centerpiece to a trade where we get someone that fits better.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

we wouldn’t have the JJ of now without the JC move

Shallow conclusion. Absolutely not. Ridiculous.

You'd have had JC on the bench... giving you 2nd string minutes against other teams' 2nd PFs... a match-up that, conventionally speaking, most of the time should have favored ATL.

That's what you would have had... a back-up to JJ after JJ outplayed JC in TC and the preseason. This false narrative is what needs to be let go. It's never been accurate to portray it as JC vs. JJ... it's always been JC vs. whoever is 2nd on the depth chart at PF.

It's nuts that anyone even has to pretend it's necessary to explain... you don't sell a stock at it's lowest value, particularly as it is the case that indicators are suggesting it could rebound soon... JC's stock was indeed at its lowest value, but his second half of the 2022-23 season gave reason to let the stock price ride and see what might happen. Seemingly he was turning the corner on his shooting after the finger injury. And even though it is the case he was at a low point, this was never a scrub player... JC was a legitimate starting asset on your roster as last season closed, and on Utah's as this season began.

It was never anything close to a basketball move to trade JC for a box of popcorn. It was always about the money on its face. There was never any real dispute about that.

 

Again, I'm not too anxious to dig into these weeds. The story isn't the JC trade. The story is what the JC trade... one season after the KH trade... says... no check that... screams and shouts... about the owner's true priority.

[JayBirdHawk]

29 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I don't hate the DJM move...

You guys are funny.  We get an all-NBA player who carries us to the ECFs... further than we have ever been and your idea of pushing the franchise forward is to continue to surround our franchise player with draft pick after draft pick... more Cam Reddish.  more DeAndre Hunter.   More OO.  More AJ.. More Bufkin.  After we lose to Miami, it was clear that we needed more ball handlers and more defensive players.   I don't hate the DJM pick up at all.  Especially since we got a Home town discount on his reup.   Yall act like he not averaging 20/5/4. Dont buy into the media ramblings.  They will always try to find the weak point of the Hawks. 

 

I was a fan of the deal then and still ok with out now but I do have some concerns:

I wanted Murry here for the things he did with SAS that I liked:
Quick first step to get to the rim and get to the free-throw line. Rebound the ball for a guard his size. POA defense. Run the offense when Trae sits. Improve his 3pt shooting (which he has) and limit teams' ability to overload Trae on defense. 

Things I'm seeing that he has to clean up:
Early in this season he was driving the ball, loved it, but he has not been doing it enough recently. His dribble is too high which I think does not allow him to get to his spots quickly enough, he dances with the ball too much. When Trae sits, I want him to run the team more vs looking for his shot as much.  In the PnR, we take for granted what Trae can do with the type of passes he can make, DJ is just not as adept. He prefers a bounce pass or shuffle pass out the PnR, which works ok for OO, not so much for CC.  He's struggling on defense vs SG who are bigger, but his focus is not always there, and he is just not moving his feet, too much reaching.  Trae is always playing defense against bigger guys and things I'm seeing him do this season with just effort, no reason for DJ to be just getting picked off consistently as he has (same with Hunter). 
Quin still has work to do.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[theheroatl]

53 minutes ago, sturt said:

Shallow conclusion. Absolutely not. Ridiculous.

You'd have had JC on the bench... giving you 2nd string minutes against other teams' 2nd PFs... a match-up that, conventionally speaking, most of the time should have favored ATL.

That's what you would have had... a back-up to JJ after JJ outplayed JC in TC and the preseason. This false narrative is what needs to be let go. It's never been accurate to portray it as JC vs. JJ... it's always been JC vs. whoever is 2nd on the depth chart at PF.

It's nuts that anyone even has to pretend it's necessary to explain... you don't sell a stock at it's lowest value, particularly as it is the case that indicators are suggesting it could rebound soon... JC's stock was indeed at its lowest value, but his second half of the 2022-23 season gave reason to let the stock price ride and see what might happen. Seemingly he was turning the corner on his shooting after the finger injury. And even though it is the case he was at a low point, this was never a scrub player... JC was a legitimate starting asset on your roster as last season closed, and on Utah's as this season began.

It was never anything close to a basketball move to trade JC for a box of popcorn. It was always about the money on its face. There was never any real dispute about that.

 

Again, I'm not too anxious to dig into these weeds. The story isn't the JC trade. The story is what the JC trade... one season after the KH trade... says... no check that... screams and shouts... about the owner's true priority.

Bruh sturt the ship has sailed man.. now the Jazz hold the bag now