Official Game Thread: Hawks at Bucks (The Big Payback!)

[RedDawg#8]

I just want to remind all of the detractors that "lack of size and defense" were the main reasons we decided to pass on Chris Paul in favor of Marvin Williams. 15 years later, he we are nitpicking Trae's D and ignoring his offensive and overall impact.

I would also like to point out that whether you use defensive win shares or defensive rating, Trae is far from the worst defensive player in the league. Or at his position. He is better statistically than some of the guys people would replace him with:

Morant, SGA, Llilard, Ball, Fox, Kyrie, Lowery, Harden, Beal.... I mean its a who's who of guys Trae can't guard who apparently can't guard Trae either.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=G

He HAS gotten better, and he will continue to improve. Change this narrative.

[Thomas]

Remember the days when we could not buy a three pointer no matter how wide open we were. A distant memory now. Man that hometown kid went wild!!! And of course Bogi with another good one.

[Thomas]

11 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

It’s game time let’s eat y’all! Buck is served!  

Well said guy. Like you see into the future or something.

[Thomas]

5 hours ago, turnermx said:

Nate is about to have a good problem when Dre and Snell, maybe Dunn make it back. This team is gonna be deep. Guess you start Tre, Bogie, Dre, JC, Clint, have Lou, Gallo, Kev, Cam, Gwu off the bench

Good thing for us it will be Nate managing the roster right?

[lethalweapon3]

57 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I just want to remind all of the detractors that "lack of size and defense" were the main reasons we decided to pass on Chris Paul in favor of Marvin Williams. 15 years later, he we are nitpicking Trae's D and ignoring his offensive and overall impact.

I would also like to point out that whether you use defensive win shares or defensive rating, Trae is far from the worst defensive player in the league. Or at his position. He is better statistically than some of the guys people would replace him with:

Morant, SGA, Llilard, Ball, Fox, Kyrie, Lowery, Harden, Beal.... I mean its a who's who of guys Trae can't guard who apparently can't guard Trae either.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=G

He HAS gotten better, and he will continue to improve. Change this narrative.

I was playing with BSPN's DRPM numbers and I think I may need to lie down and wake back up. After months of time dwelling at the basement of Page 13 (South Beach Dieter KPJ has stretched the chart to Page 14), Trae is on Page Six, and I don't mean on The Post!

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/6/sort/DRPM

He must have literally vaulted up the charts in the past couple of weeks, because I always like to check, and he was always down there with most of the folks you described above. I wonder if the Defensive BPM numbers show the same thing.

Somebody is clearly coaching. Even more clearly, somebody's out here working on his game.

He's not even bad at this juncture, he's a'ight. And I like a'ight!

~lw3

[REHawksFan]

17 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

I was playing with BSPN's DRPM numbers and I think I may need to lie down and wake back up. After months of time dwelling at the basement of Page 13 (South Beach Dieter KPJ has stretched the chart to Page 14), Trae is on Page Six, and I don't mean on The Post!

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/6/sort/DRPM

He must have literally vaulted up the charts in the past couple of weeks, because I always like to check, and he was always down there with most of the folks you described above. I wonder if the Defensive BPM numbers show the same thing.

Somebody is clearly coaching. Even more clearly, somebody's out here working on his game.

He's not even bad at this juncture, he's a'ight. And I like a'ight!

~lw3

I've long questioned defensive stats for individual players as defense in general is so incredibly dependent on the TEAM.  So I certainly think SOME of the improvement for Trae is the overall team defense improving. That said, he's DEFINITELY improved defensively. Those saying he hasn't are just hating.  He gives better effort, plays passing lanes, gets steals and deflections, and has pretty active hands for the most part.  We don't see nearly as much spectating since Nate took over.  

I wasn't able to find the DRPM number since Nate took over, but NBA.com does have Defensive Win Shares and Trae ranks 166th out of 500 players since March 1 when Nate took over.  Even if you sort the data on a per game basis, he ranks 239 out of 500.  So yeah, Trae has definitely improved on defense.  

[Gray Mule]

WHEN LIFE GIVES YOU LEMONS, MAKE LEMONADE!

Not lemons but sour grapes.  Trae is out and the Hawks are on a roll with their last two games.  Maybe we should see the blessing in disguise.  Atlanta is proving that they can win without Trae.  True.  Can this also be a learning experience for Trae?  You bet!  Lemonade!

As he sits on the bench, watching his team preform the way that they have, he must have a better appreciation of what the players are capable of.  Things that he might not be able to observe when he is playing now become clear to him.

Maturity.  Trae is growing.  He's slowly becoming what we all hoped that he would become.  He's far from what we want him to be.  Some of us have impossible hopes.  We will never be satisfied.  We want him to play shut down defense, never have a turnover and have a bucket full of points and assists.

It ain't going to happen.  Old what's his name in Dallas is better than the player we got from them in that trade we made.  He is the darling of the media.  When we traded Rondo for Williams, the Hawks also got two second round picks and $$$ money.  I like this bonus.  Don't forget about Cam Reddish, that extra bonus we got in the trade for Trae!  

When this season opened, we all were in hopes that this would be the year that the Hawks returned to the playoffs.  Atlanta has just had two terrific victories.  Yet, some have their mouth in a pucker from eating sour grapes.  Let it go.  Enjoy what we have and where we are.  One day at a time.

[kg01]

What's that?  What're my thoughts on this game?  I'm elated that you asked?

1. So some Bucks fans, even after last night, have convinced themselves they're still better off with Donte as opposed to BANGdonovich.  They cite "advanced stats".  Any "advanced stat" that tells you Bogd isn't several levels better than that backup should be tossed out.

b. How fun is it to watch the Hawks defend these days?  Smells like we're finally playing with an identity on that end.

- Memo to Budz, Hawks are gonna run pick 'n roll.  Maybe make an adjustment .... soon.  Please.  Please?

d. Memo to Hawks management ... what more do you need to see w.r.t. McMillan?  Get it done, boise.  Other teams're surely watching and waiting.  Don't get cute.

5. Gotta give a lotta luv to Goodwin.  Good job for the staff to go back to him as opposed to the Mays experiment, which was always weird.

>Somethin' tells me, amidst all our offensive weapons, opposing coaches are gonna wake up from nightmares of ... 

[Hawkmoor]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

But we're a top 10 offense in the league.  #8 actually

So how is the offense horrible, when the guy who think should be playing off the ball, is 2nd in the league in assists, averaging almost 10 a game?

 

Make it make sense.

Trae keeps BOTH teams in the game.

[JayBirdHawk]

47 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

>Somethin' tells me, amidst all our offensive weapons, opposing coaches are gonna wake up from nightmares of ... 

KH is becoming the silent assassin, working in the shadows.

[macdaddy]

You can't not bring Nate back.   I hope they are working on it.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[kg01]

... oh and another thing ...

One of my extreme gripes previously was that we, at times, played as if we were looking for excuses to lose.  Coincidentally, the 'process' 6ers played like that as well (see a connection?).  This attitude that, "oh well, we're supposed to lose tonight so I guess we're gonna lose".

Other teams, good teams, play with a true 'next man up' mentality.  They don't just say it.  I feel like we've been saying it but didn't really believe it.

Starter out?  So, let's go out and (try to) win.  2 starters out?  So, let's go out and (try to) win.  It's Tuesday in Salt Lake?  So, let's go out and (try to) win.

Of course, you don't always win but that's how culture is set.

So I say, again, Management what more do you need to see?  I'm sure there's some new guy out there that looks cute in a warm-up but maybe the guy with a beer belly is a better choice.

Folks thinking this, and other wins, suggests we're better without certain players?  Well, maybe think a little deeper.

The fact that play doesn't tapper off when certain guys are out isn't an indication that the team is better off without.  It's an indication that the team is actually trying (cul-cha).

Or are you suggesting you prefer the team lay their a** down just because so-and-so is out?

[REHawksFan]

47 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Trae keeps BOTH teams in the game.

If that's true how does he have the 3rd highest net rating on the team for the season at +4.5?  

[JayBirdHawk]

I know Lou was on FYA, but.........he was involved in a scoring play the last nine minutes.

 

 

[macdaddy]

15 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

If that's true how does he have the 3rd highest net rating on the team for the season at +4.5?  

Yeah.  No one is going to let facts get in the way of not liking a guy. 

[aali34]

11 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

If that's true how does he have the 3rd highest net rating on the team for the season at +4.5?  

You're gonna go in circles again. Instead of presenting statistical evidence to back up your points, have them to do it.

I've noticed in my personal life that some people get stumped when you ask them to elaborate.

- Why makes you think so?

- Can you share specific examples that made you come to that conclusion?

- Any data that backs up your statements?

If they are seeking a good faith discussion and have done their own due diligence, these should be easy to answer. Makes it easy to distinguish from those who feel otherwise.

 

[bleachkit]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I've long questioned defensive stats for individual players as defense in general is so incredibly dependent on the TEAM.  So I certainly think SOME of the improvement for Trae is the overall team defense improving. That said, he's DEFINITELY improved defensively. Those saying he hasn't are just hating.  He gives better effort, plays passing lanes, gets steals and deflections, and has pretty active hands for the most part.  We don't see nearly as much spectating since Nate took over.  

I wasn't able to find the DRPM number since Nate took over, but NBA.com does have Defensive Win Shares and Trae ranks 166th out of 500 players since March 1 when Nate took over.  Even if you sort the data on a per game basis, he ranks 239 out of 500.  So yeah, Trae has definitely improved on defense.  

I think his improvement is mostly because of better overall team defense. Guys are executing their assignments better and are in the right spots, at least moreso than before. We are hiding him, or at least not exposing him, and guys are helping out when he is in a tough spot. Defense is all about team, for sure. Trae is a small guy, not the longest arms, defense is never going to be his calling card, so I'll take any improvement. What really will matter is the playoffs, where match ups are exploited. Refs tends to not call fouls as much, so that's also something to keep an eye on. 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

(cul-cha).

Sac (de cul) preaching cul-cha eh? Cul rec cul I suppose. ️’s back every time.

[MaceCase]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I know Lou was on FYA, but.........he was involved in a scoring play the last nine minutes.

 

 

Trust me.......I needed a cigarette break after that stretch