Official Game Thread: Hawks at Bucks (The Big Payback!)

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

cigarette

Cigar, cigarette ah hell same difference. Come over for pipe night at kg’s in the sac de cul one time, we discuss the Hawks like gentleman with our smoke of choice and brandy’s  

[SalvorMallow]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

WHEN LIFE GIVES YOU LEMONS, MAKE Lemonade!

When life gives you lemons, make lemon pepper wings! You might just win the 4th quarter! 

[REHawksFan]

12 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I think his improvement is mostly because of better overall team defense. Guys are executing their assignments better and are in the right spots, at least moreso than before. We are hiding him, or at least not exposing him, and guys are helping out when he is in a tough spot. Defense is all about team, for sure. Trae is a small guy, not the longest arms, defense is never going to be his calling card, so I'll take any improvement. What really will matter is the playoffs, where match ups are exploited. Refs tends to not call fouls as much, so that's also something to keep an eye on. 

 

I have a significant issue with this type of take because it lends itself to just say any progress Trae makes is team driven while still making the claim that he's a horrible defender.  It's the perfect hater argument (not saying you are a hater though) because it gives all credit for improvement to others and still allows the hater to claim Trae is the worst.  The reality is, if Trae is the worst defender in the NBA (or one of them) as purported by some on this board, then he would be dragging the other defenders down rather than them propping Trae up.  Unless he's surrounded by elite defenders all the time, it just doesn't make sense that he's as bad as some claim while the team defense even with him on the court is solid.  

 

[bleachkit]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I have a significant issue with this type of take because it lends itself to just say any progress Trae makes is team driven while still making the claim that he's a horrible defender.  It's the perfect hater argument (not saying you are a hater though) because it gives all credit for improvement to others and still allows the hater to claim Trae is the worst.  The reality is, if Trae is the worst defender in the NBA (or one of them) as purported by some on this board, then he would be dragging the other defenders down rather than them propping Trae up.  Unless he's surrounded by elite defenders all the time, it just doesn't make sense that he's as bad as some claim while the team defense even with him on the court is solid.  

 

The single most important thing is that we have Capela to funnel things through. So the team defense component is important. Trae's defense was so bad he had nowhere to go but up. But if the metrics say he has improved, I'll take it. Good job Trae. 

[Plainview1981]

3 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I just want to remind all of the detractors that "lack of size and defense" were the main reasons we decided to pass on Chris Paul in favor of Marvin Williams. 15 years later, he we are nitpicking Trae's D and ignoring his offensive and overall impact.

I would also like to point out that whether you use defensive win shares or defensive rating, Trae is far from the worst defensive player in the league. Or at his position. He is better statistically than some of the guys people would replace him with:

Morant, SGA, Llilard, Ball, Fox, Kyrie, Lowery, Harden, Beal.... I mean its a who's who of guys Trae can't guard who apparently can't guard Trae either.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=G

He HAS gotten better, and he will continue to improve. Change this narrative.

No doubt Paul was better than Marvin... Paul has a lot of regular season achievements...

Playoff record...Not quite as good if my memory serves me correctly.

The argument about Trae needing to play off the ball more is a really good argument.

People might say "what stats do you have to prove this or prove that."

Somethings are observational.

You might see a player and their skill set and it reminds you of other  players.

I can invision a playoff series... A competitive series in which games will be close and these games are where bad defense and bad shot selection stands out.

Now... You get down to 3 mins in a game... It's a 5 point game.... Don't you think the opposing team is going to target Trae when they have the ball (probably John Collins also)?

On the offensive end, it might come down to Trae hitting floaters in traffic or making those really tough long bombs that Curry regularly hits, but streaky Trae probably misses.

Ball dominance and volume scoring can be a problem.

Yes, I know Iverson got to the finals this way... But the NBA was really weak at that time.

It's not just about Trae but not having a flexible offense/game plan.

Trae being able to play off the ball some would be a game changer.

However, based on watching other people that have a style like Trae... It is a hard thing to change and most aren't able to do it.

 

 

 

[thecampster]

13 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I have a significant issue with this type of take because it lends itself to just say any progress Trae makes is team driven while still making the claim that he's a horrible defender.  It's the perfect hater argument (not saying you are a hater though) because it gives all credit for improvement to others and still allows the hater to claim Trae is the worst.  The reality is, if Trae is the worst defender in the NBA (or one of them) as purported by some on this board, then he would be dragging the other defenders down rather than them propping Trae up.  Unless he's surrounded by elite defenders all the time, it just doesn't make sense that he's as bad as some claim while the team defense even with him on the court is solid.  

 

[RedDawg#8]

7 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I have a significant issue with this type of take because it lends itself to just say any progress Trae makes is team driven while still making the claim that he's a horrible defender.  It's the perfect hater argument (not saying you are a hater though) because it gives all credit for improvement to others and still allows the hater to claim Trae is the worst.  The reality is, if Trae is the worst defender in the NBA (or one of them) as purported by some on this board, then he would be dragging the other defenders down rather than them propping Trae up.  Unless he's surrounded by elite defenders all the time, it just doesn't make sense that he's as bad as some claim while the team defense even with him on the court is solid.  

 

Facts, and we all know that other than Capela, the best defenders on this team are all in street clothes cheerleading. So the improvement is not because of being surrounded by elite defense.

If anything, you have to give a lot of credit to Nate. He is getting the most out of this banged up roster. He is playing Young, Bogi and Huerter together and not getting blown out of the water. He told Kevin that we need him to be better defensively, and Kev has responded. Trae is not locking anybody up, but he for sure is able to his job and has been on the court for many of those 4th quarter defensive stretches. It takes each guy individually to commit to defense for the team to look good. Trae deserves credit for his role in that.

Prime example, and I wish I had receipts. But every time the cross matchup tries to post up Trae, they usually come up empty handed. Teams can try to pick on Trae, but he does not reward them with easy buckets. Only when he ends up on the "star" does he really get burned. 

[Dnice]

Bob was just being messy last night.. " What's wrong Buddy?"  lol lol.... and later Bud's on screen and he goes "awwww".

[REHawksFan]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

The single most important thing is that we have Capela to funnel things through. So the team defense component is important. Trae's defense was so bad he had nowhere to go but up. But if the metrics say he has improved, I'll take it. Good job Trae. 

And to be clear, I think Capela has lifted the entire team's defense.  SOME of Trae's improvement is most assuredly due to the team getting better.  But SOME of the team getting better is also attributable to Trae no longer being an extreme liability too.  It's both and.  I just cringe when I see people claim that all of Trae's improvement is team based, and we have those here that do so because they really hate Trae for whatever reason.  

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

No doubt Paul was better than Marvin... Paul has a lot of regular season achievements...

Playoff record...Not quite as good if my memory serves me correctly.

The argument about Trae needing to play off the ball more is a really good argument.

People might say "what stats do you have to prove this or prove that."

Somethings are observational.

You might see a player and their skill set and it reminds you of other  players.

I can invision a playoff series... A competitive series in which games will be close and these games are where bad defense and bad shot selection stands out.

Now... You get down to 3 mins in a game... It's a 5 point game.... Don't you think the opposing team is going to target Trae when they have the ball (probably John Collins also)?

On the offensive end, it might come down to Trae hitting floaters in traffic or making those really tough long bombs that Curry regularly hits, but streaky Trae probably misses.

Ball dominance and volume scoring can be a problem.

Yes, I know Iverson got to the finals this way... But the NBA was really weak at that time.

It's not just about Trae but not having a flexible offense/game plan.

Trae being able to play off the ball some would be a game changer.

However, based on watching other people that have a style like Trae... It is a hard thing to change and most aren't able to do it.

On the flip side on the offensive end - what happens if a team deploys the 'Hack-a-pella' and Capela keep missing freethows? 

I think with Nate, you are now seeing a more flexible game plan, and he has said that - running more plays for Bogi and Huerter, posting JC more, so the team is not as Trae-centric.  But anyone believing we are better off without Trae is delusional.

Teams are going to target Trae, just like Capela can be targeted as well.  Nate may have to deploy the defense/offense strategy for both these players in crunch time situations.

It's all in game planning and players taking care of their own assignment and helping out their teammates.  No one player will win us playoff games.  It's gonna be a total team effort. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[macdaddy]

I just don't know what more Trae can do to change the narrative.   We have a legit D this year, Trae is number one on the team in minutes/game and yet somehow his D is still causing us major problems.   He's supposedly a ball dominant Iverson type yet we have 9 players in double figures.   NINE!   His assists are up, FGA are way own, 3 point attempts down.   Folks need to find some new critiques.

[aali34]

1 hour ago, Plainview1981 said:

No doubt Paul was better than Marvin... Paul has a lot of regular season achievements...

Playoff record...Not quite as good if my memory serves me correctly.

The argument about Trae needing to play off the ball more is a really good argument.

People might say "what stats do you have to prove this or prove that."

Somethings are observational.

You might see a player and their skill set and it reminds you of other  players.

I can invision a playoff series... A competitive series in which games will be close and these games are where bad defense and bad shot selection stands out.

Now... You get down to 3 mins in a game... It's a 5 point game.... Don't you think the opposing team is going to target Trae when they have the ball (probably John Collins also)?

On the offensive end, it might come down to Trae hitting floaters in traffic or making those really tough long bombs that Curry regularly hits, but streaky Trae probably misses.

Ball dominance and volume scoring can be a problem.

Yes, I know Iverson got to the finals this way... But the NBA was really weak at that time.

It's not just about Trae but not having a flexible offense/game plan.

Trae being able to play off the ball some would be a game changer.

However, based on watching other people that have a style like Trae... It is a hard thing to change and most aren't able to do it.

 

 

 

I think that will be a part of Trae's development, don't think it will be this year. Don't forget he struggled early on with switching between running the team and being aggressive with his own offense. It might be too much too ask for him to be fluent off the ball although I would love to see it. 

Is there a point guard that does all three well? Off-ball movement, game-management, and aggressive scoring? I'm leaning Curry, but Draymond is the main facilitator for GSW and Chris Paul isn't really an off ball player either. If Trae were to unlock that part of his game he might unique in that regard.

Edited April 26, 2021 by aali34

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I just don't know what more Trae can do to change the narrative.   We have a legit D this year, Trae is number one on the team in minutes/game and yet somehow his D is still causing us major problems.   He's supposedly a ball dominant Iverson type yet we have 9 players in double figures.   NINE!   His assists are up, FGA are way own, 3 point attempts down.   Folks need to find some new critiques.

His floor game has been solid since we started winning. He's not the most efficient guy, but he makes up for it by getting to the line at a prodigious rate. Also, he is taking less three's, so I credit him for being more judicious, even if it's not falling. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Clear!

 

 

[BrazilianHawk]

14 hours ago, ATLHawks3 said:

That's game of the year right there.

We already had so many of those "games of the year", yet it keeps getting better!

 

Thank you, Nate!

[Spud2nique]

57 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Squawk This is a we are unite and this is how we gonna post, simple as that! 

[Gray Mule]

After reading the posts over on REALGM on the Bucks sight, I found some of their thoughts about the game.  Apparently they are not all 100% sold on their head coach, Bud, former Hawk coach.

There is a general cry and moan about us getting Bogdan Bogdanovic instead of them.  Remember, they jumped the gun and then lost him because of this.  

Some said they were sorry that Trae was out.  They feel that. if he had played, the Bucks would have won.  Something that some of our Squawk posters have mentioned.  Our own Rodney Dangerfield.

Also, some mentioned that posters there had mentioned that they didn't want Lou Williams coming there.  

Finally, before the game started, they were saying that since their starters didn't play a lot the night before, they would be well rested for the game.  This was before the game.  As it was winding down, apparently their starters were just so very tired from playing the night before they couldn't function.

[JayBirdHawk]

Bawb! lol

 

 

[macdaddy]

I thought the Bogdan story to the Bucks was not just that they screwed up / tampering or whatever but that Bogie had never actually agreed to the deal in the first place?   didn't he say that when he heard the announcement he had no idea about the deal?