The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[sturt]

34 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'd say that's very common and shows that person isn't that confident in their abilities or job security but doesn't make them evil. 

Good.

So, can we agree, then, that if you told me that "I don't think you hired the best people because it's clear to me that you're not confident that you're adequate to get the job done successfully," that would be a negative... ? You would assume I would take that as regarding me as deficient...? You would assume I would take that as regarding me as more concerned with my own welfare over that of the company...?

That's all I'm saying.

"Evil?"

Don't misunderstand. When I use the term "Demon Nate," that's intended as a reflection on how Nate is thought-of... it's always Nate's bad attitude, always Nate's bad behavior. So, a reflection on those who demonize him... suggesting they might as well just come out and say it... they consider, not just Nate the coach, but Nate the human being, to be bad/evil.

But Nate's not actually that. He's being perceived as that by some... too many, too often, too casually... and I'm calling that out for what it is.

 

  

 

[JTB]

6 hours ago, Sothron said:

My plan B if Brown/KAT aren't happening would be moving Capela to give OO the start at center. I know we're also kicking the tires on a certain tall Euro player for the Wizards. Not sure how I feel about that one.

As @ShooterSays stated Im happy to hear we are going after Porzingis.

isn’t Schlenk the new gm over there now? …maybe he cut us a good sign and trade deal . We all know how much he loves Hunter

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, ShooterSays said:

Glad to hear we have interest in Porzingis. I’ve been driving that train and mocked him in my offseason thread.

There’s no one better (who’s actually available) to pair with OO in the front court imo. He has the size, spacing, and rim protection to be really good here.

If you have doubts, go watch the YouTube highlights of our game against Washington where he dropped 43 on us. 

 

Jeezz . . . I forgot about this game.

 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

Good.

So, can we agree, then, that if you told me that "I don't think you hired the best people because it's clear to me that you're not confident that you're adequate to get the job done successfully," that would be a negative... ? You would assume I would take that as regarding me as deficient...? You would assume I would take that as regarding me as more concerned with my own welfare over that of the company...?

That's all I'm saying.

"Evil?"

Don't misunderstand. When I use the term "Demon Nate," that's intended as a reflection on how Nate is thought-of... it's always Nate's bad attitude, always Nate's bad behavior. So, a reflection on those who demonize him... suggesting they might as well just come out and say it... they consider, not just Nate the coach, but Nate the human being, to be bad/evil.

But Nate's not actually that. He's being perceived as that by some... too many, too often, too casually... and I'm calling that out for what it is.

 

  

 

And legit criticism of him is caricatured as calling him “Demon Nate.”   

[ShooterSays]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Jeezz . . . I forgot about this game.

 

Almost all his points were assisted too which pairs nicely with Trae’s game.

Watch the pick and pop at 3:55 and imagine that with Trae. 

[MaceCase]

If the team is committed to the Trae/DJ backcourt, going bigger in the frontcourt would be logical.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, AHF said:

Not much different than Hunter over the last 4 years:

Porzingus

65

51

43

57

Hunter

67

52

23

63

JC availability the last 4 years hasnt been that much better either....

71

54

63

41

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by terrell

[Wretch]

6 hours ago, ShooterSays said:

Glad to hear we have interest in Porzingis. I’ve been driving that train and mocked him in my offseason thread.

There’s no one better (who’s actually available) to pair with OO in the front court imo. He has the size, spacing, and rim protection to be really good here.

If you have doubts, go watch the YouTube highlights of our game against Washington where he dropped 43 on us. 

Porzingis is one of 3 players that have been on my radar the last couple of years...but he has been on the very outskirts of my radar as a minor blip.  This is only because of his injury history and honestly how teams have sold on him.  In a vacuum, he's the stretch 5 we have been pining for tho and I wouldn't cry about it if we landed him.

[kg01]

29 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Porzingis is one of 3 players that have been on my radar the last couple of years...but he has been on the very outskirts of my radar as a minor blip.  This is only because of his injury history and honestly how teams have sold on him.  In a vacuum, he's the stretch 5 we have been pining for tho and I wouldn't cry about it if we landed him.

Well don't leave us hanging.  Who are the other 2? 

Tj McConnell? 

[Sothron]

7 hours ago, capstone21 said:

Porzingus is ALWAYS injured

That's my only real concern. I think he and OO would be a defensive nightmare for teams. Size in Porz and shot blocking in both guys, OO can handle perimeter and Porz for larger centers.

But can he stay healthy?

[JTB]

6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

That's my only real concern. I think he and OO would be a defensive nightmare for teams. Size in Porz and shot blocking in both guys, OO can handle perimeter and Porz for larger centers.

But can he stay healthy?

That’s literally the million dollar question when it comes to Porzingis. 
I think the fit is excellent and it’s worth pursuing as long as we can keep Jalen Johnson in any deal and maybe sign the best big man that falls to us in the draft also.

With a new scheme and better supporting cast it wouldn’t be bad thing if Jalen Johnson and OO had to be our starting PF and Center some games would it ? 

[Phunkabilly]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Jeezz . . . I forgot about this game.

 

I really wish I could find Quin's press conference after this game, because I remember him heaping praise onto Porzingis about how he's impossible to guard.  Granted, it may be confirmation bias kicking in because I've wanted KP ever since the 2015 draft, but I remember getting excited that Quin really seemed to love the guy which hopefully means we'll make a run at him.  And as JTB alluded to, there's probably no front office outside of Atlanta that loves Hawks players as much as Washington with the infusion of Schlenk.  I think there's a real possibility a deal could get done here.

[h4wkfan]

Unless we can get porzingis to sign an extension as soon as he’s traded - I’d pass. Assuming no other major moves - we’d be going into the offseason with Porzingis, OO, and Murray all needing new deals. That’s a major risk given that we’ve traded those FRPs. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by h4wkfan

[sturt]

5 hours ago, Phunkabilly said:

I really wish I could find Quin's press conference after this game, because I remember him heaping praise onto Porzingis about how he's impossible to guard. 

Believe you're referring to his after game comments to Bally, because his post-game was all about the win (... easy to forget, we did win that game... was the previous game when Beal became unstoppable that we lost).

But I heard it too. And it really was true that night. He could have been shooting 3s with his back facing the bucket, and they would have went in.

 

5 hours ago, Phunkabilly said:

Granted, it may be confirmation bias kicking in because I've wanted KP ever since the 2015 draft,

Appreciate the transparency...

And here's the thing.

For all the talk that "we too easily fall in love with our own guys," it's no different that we too easily fall in love with guys on other teams. Both are true, not one or the other. Just like we consider our own guys trash... and... consider guys on other teams to be trash.

So, you might be right to have the high opinion of Porzingis, you might not be, but I just applaud the approach.... we could use more of that around here in the off-season, imo.

 

5 hours ago, Phunkabilly said:

there's probably no front office outside of Atlanta that loves Hawks players as much as Washington with the infusion of Schlenk.

Can't argue with that.

Me, I'm more interested in Gafford than anyone else.

[macdaddy]

15 hours ago, sturt said:

Good.

So, can we agree, then, that if you told me that "I don't think you hired the best people because it's clear to me that you're not confident that you're adequate to get the job done successfully," that would be a negative... ? You would assume I would take that as regarding me as deficient...? You would assume I would take that as regarding me as more concerned with my own welfare over that of the company...?

That's all I'm saying.

"Evil?"

Don't misunderstand. When I use the term "Demon Nate," that's intended as a reflection on how Nate is thought-of... it's always Nate's bad attitude, always Nate's bad behavior. So, a reflection on those who demonize him... suggesting they might as well just come out and say it... they consider, not just Nate the coach, but Nate the human being, to be bad/evil.

But Nate's not actually that. He's being perceived as that by some... too many, too often, too casually... and I'm calling that out for what it is.

 

  

 

Saying something negative about someone's job performance isn't accusing them of being evil or a bad person.   It's saying they are bad at their job.  Part of his job was hiring good assistants.  He was bad at that. 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Part of his job was hiring good assistants.  He was bad at that. 

Last part first.

Objectively, that's your take. Free country. You absolutely have the right to guess just like any of the rest of us have the right to guess. It's a guess. There's nothing to support that.

I pretty much covered this as well as it could be covered, if I do say so myself... see screenshot below...

(Btw, indeed, iirc, didn't you yourself indicate you hoped Quin would keep Prunty? Several did, and I thought you were among them though I'm too lazy to look it up... correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Saying something negative about someone's job performance isn't accusing them of being evil or a bad person.

This is true. We agree.

But again again again... that's not the part we're talking about when you accuse me of putting my own benefit ahead of that of the team... when you accuse me of putting winning second to preserving/forwarding my own career... that is an assault on a person's character, not his "job performance." Said from the outset of the conversation and over and over, on balance, it is fair to be critical of a coach's job performance. You step over the line, though, when you begin insinuating that the man himself acts out of fear and self-preservation to the point that he makes the conscious decision to hire inferior help.

And I still can't keep from noticing how absurd the concept itself is.... the idea that a head coach would be so fearful of losing his job... that he would hire inferior help. How does this work? Wouldn't the logical thing be, if I really think I'm not going to be successful, to hire guys who will help me be successful in spite of myself... wouldn't the quickest way to lose my job in that case be to hire people who I believe aren't capable of excellence? Never did make sense. But it's out there. It's part of why we began this conversation. The bigger part, though, is the assault on Nate's character. That's just wrong.

 

 

[Final_quest]

4 hours ago, h4wkfan said:

Unless we can get porzingis to sign an extension as soon as he’s traded - I’d pass. Assuming no other major moves - we’d be going into the offseason with Porzingis, OO, and Murray all needing new deals. That’s a major risk given that we’ve traded those FRPs. 

That's a big risk for sure.  If we traded both Capela and JC, at least one of them going out for Porzingis, could we then get significantly under the cap next offseason?  We head into the offseason with bird rights for KP, OO, and DJM, and also about $50M in capspace.  They might all 3 have cap holds that prevent us from creating that room, not sure.  Then we can resign the players we want if we strike out in free agency.  

[AHF]

Like everyone else, Porzingis intrigues but I would hope that we do some to shore up injury risk on this team if we did make a move for him.  If we added him, I would say the following players have substantial demonstrated risks of missing time:

Porzingis

Hunter

Collins

Bogi

Jalen

I'd also say that Clint and AJ are borderline for whether to include in this category but that is a big chunk of our rotation. 

The only guys I would say that don't have that history are Trae, Bey, and DM (and I say that knowing he missed an entire season).

In a sense, adding Porzingis would be doubling down on our injury risk.  Granted, if we did trade for him I would think it is inevitable that one of those guys will be moved back in return so if it was a deal based around JC or CC for Porzingis maybe that doesn't substantially change what is an already known injury risk or offers sufficient upside to make the enhanced risk worthwhile.

Eh, I'm not a doctor so I just tend to rely on a "past results" type of approach.  I'm sure @KB21 could give a much more informed opinion on which types of injuries carry a heightened risk into the future than others.  Big Z is the guy I would not have touched with a 10 foot pole at his injury risk nadir and I always remember being so pleasantly surprised that he emerged to be a consistent producer out of a very scary profile.

[JeffS17]

20 hours ago, sturt said:

Can't expect any given person to read every post here... so, let me speak to that.

Mac, say we work together. We're peers in middle management. Okay? Now, say, we both have hired our team of employees. Let's say your team has outperformed my team. And let's say you come to me and tell me that our bosses seem to think, unlike you, I've purposely not hired the best possible people, and let's say that the word is out that I'm too scared for my own job, and the suspicion, nay the conclusion, is that that's because I'm so preoccupied with the possibility that if I'd hired someone top-notch, s/he might push me out.

I shouldn't take that as an insult, though, right? Making decisions for the good of myself ahead of the good of my employer, that's no black mark on my character. Surely.

Do you think?

 

Well, of course, that's what Demon Nate has been charged with around here in the last several days. And it's even gained approval.

No one (except me) has recoiled in any explicit way in his defense.

(Seems I don't take the most popular positions sometimes.)

 

For what it's worth, a while back I rebutted the asinine takes that Nate was intentionally hiring poor talent so he could not be replaced -- not only because it's ridiculous in it's own right, but because the take itself isn't even logical in a vacuum.  If Nate wanted to be the coach of the Hawks, why would he want a worse staff inevitably leading to worse results?  Are we to assume he enjoys ...losing?  Was he unhappy making it to the ECF as an interim?  Nothing about that argument stream of consciousness take makes any sense.

This conversation reminds me of dialogue I had with our HOA about "protecting our elevators" by placing very bland, gray, padding over the walls.  In order to preserve the nice finishes and paint -- which serve a purely aesthetic purpose -- we've covered them with cheap, ugly, padding perpetually.  For what?  Resale value of an elevator cabin, perhaps?  Make it make sense to me.  I digress. 

[Phunkabilly]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

Like everyone else, Porzingis intrigues but I would hope that we do some to shore up injury risk on this team if we did make a move for him.  If we added him, I would say the following players have substantial demonstrated risks of missing time:

Porzingis

Hunter

Collins

Bogi

Jalen

I'd also say that Clint and AJ are borderline for whether to include in this category but that is a big chunk of our rotation. 

The only guys I would say that don't have that history are Trae, Bey, and DM (and I say that knowing he missed an entire season).

In a sense, adding Porzingis would be doubling down on our injury risk.

I agree.  If we made a trade with Washington, I figure it might be something along the lines of Collins/Hunter for Porzingis/Wright.  In a sense, we'd be mitigating the injury risk for Porzingis by sending out guys who also have injury risk.  And I agree with others' assessments... I'd mostly only be willing to make a trade like this if KP signs an extension with us... unless the cost is really cheap.

And before people get up in arms about trading Hunter, I'll point out that KP is only 2 years older than Hunter, and has accomplished a helluva lot more than Hunter at this stage in their careers.
 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Phunkabilly