Official Game Thread: Celtics at Hawks (Monday)

[kg01]

Funny that all these folks tryna make a case for trading Trae because 'we don't need him' (I guess), won't do the same for JJ.  Weird.  Why not trade JJ now?  Wouldn't he be more valuable since Trae's trash, of course. 

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, terrell said:

Just like I said a while back.. He can put up similar numbers with Trae usage...

He is taking two more shots per game than Trae (21 to 19) and scoring one less point so he isn't quite there.  You would expect Trae to be averaging roughly 29 PPG if given the same 21 FGA/gm that DJM is taking to average 25.5.  That checks out given that Trae averaged 29.6  on 20.8 FGA/gm and 28.4 on 20.3 FGA/gm in the two seasons where he took that close to that many shots.  

I suppose you could say that 25.5 and 29 are similar, though, in which case then I would agree with you using your definition even if I wouldn't go so far as to call those similar.

[terrell]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

Murray is also a detriment at SG.  Combine this with the changes in how the league is calling the call and a healthy dose of weaker opponents and it is a nice recipe for improved defense relative to our numbers earlier in the season.  

This was a really good win once the frontcourt asserted themselves in the 2Q.  A big part of that was the defense even if this wasn't a standout game in terms of points allowed.

Because Murray is a 1..

[terrell]

18 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Funny that all these folks tryna make a case for trading Trae because 'we don't need him' (I guess), won't do the same for JJ.  Weird.  Why not trade JJ now?  Wouldn't he be more valuable since Trae's trash, of course. 

Who's trying to trade Trae besides that one dude who doesn't come around much?(big E train) 

I said ONE has to go IMO.. He or Murray..

Edited March 26 by terrell

[kg01]

Just now, terrell said:

Who said we need to trade Trae besides that one dude that Ive never heard of? lol

I said ONE has to go IMO.. He or Murray..

I dont think either has to go.  And there are several who have been on that bandwagon for a while.  I wasn't targeting you.

[hawkman]

20 minutes ago, terrell said:

I hope he stays.. Our role players wont be happy if he's moved.. 

I'd honestly rather keep him over Trae..

Fixed. Just say that. You've been hinting at it nonstop every time the Hawks win a game without Trae. Just let it out man. 

 

And no, I'd still much rather keep Trae. My memory isn't that short. I love DJ but he isn't on Trae Young's level. The Hawks saw enough from Trae in year two to at least attempt to build a team around him. Pop didn't even consider doing the same with DJ, even after his All Star season. Again, that's not a knock on DJ, but there's no question who I'd build a team around.

[terrell]

25 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Funny that all these folks tryna make a case for trading Trae because 'we don't need him' (I guess), won't do the same for JJ.  Weird.  Why not trade JJ now?  Wouldn't he be more valuable since Trae's trash, of course. 

Hawks are 7-13 without JJ  btw.

5 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Fixed. Just say that. You've been hinting at it nonstop every time the Hawks win a game without Trae. Just let it out man. 

 

And no, I'd still much rather keep Trae. My memory isn't that short. I love DJ but he isn't on Trae Young's level. The Hawks saw enough from Trae in year two to at least attempt to build a team around him. Pop didn't even consider doing the same with DJ, even after his All Star season. Again, that's not a knock on DJ, but there's no question who I'd build a team around.

I don't hint.. I say what I want to say.. 

Again, its either or for me.. He OR Murray

Also Depends on the return

Edited March 26 by terrell

[Diesel]

Keep Trae and Keep DJ.

Trade DJ if a good deal comes but keep them both and figure out how to make it work.  Even if you have to have a team A and Team B situation.. do that.   Like when we had Lemon Pepper. 

Our team.. the whole team is starting to get it.   Sometimes, Getting it takes time. 

 

[NBASupes]

Good discussions on both sides. Good posting

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Fixed. Just say that. You've been hinting at it nonstop every time the Hawks win a game without Trae. Just let it out man. 

 

And no, I'd still much rather keep Trae. My memory isn't that short. I love DJ but he isn't on Trae Young's level. The Hawks saw enough from Trae in year two to at least attempt to build a team around him. Pop didn't even consider doing the same with DJ, even after his All Star season. Again, that's not a knock on DJ, but there's no question who I'd build a team around.

The issue may not be whether or not Murray is as good as Trae (he isn't), but if the additional value we get back from a Trae trade makes it worth trading him over Murray. If Murray's market doesn't heat up from what it was at the deadline (Reaves seemed like the apex return) then it could make sense to trade Trae if we can get a legit All-Star player back.

 

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

The issue may not be whether or not Murray is as good as Trae (he isn't), but if the additional value we get back from a Trae trade makes it worth trading him over Murray. If Murray's market doesn't heat up from what it was at the deadline (Reaves seemed like the apex return) then it could make sense to trade Trae if we can get a legit All-Star player back.

 

 

 

This is not to say I'm advocating for a Trae trade, but I would be open to it for the right return. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

The issue may not be whether or not Murray is as good as Trae (he isn't), but if the additional value we get back from a Trae trade makes it worth trading him over Murray. If Murray's market doesn't heat up from what it was at the deadline (Reaves seemed like the apex return) then it could make sense to trade Trae if we can get a legit All-Star player back.

 

 

 

Yeah, if we could get Devin Booker back, it would make sense. It's the Devin Vassell and picks that make me like hell naw. Trash! 

Whereas for Murray, I am more open to lesser player that fits and picks but I am not interested in that idea for Trae. 

[NBASupes]

Here's how I see it. I can win a title with Trae if I got the right pieces that fit Trae. 

I know I can't with Murray unless he's just one of the right pieces. Because of that, Murray is a lot more open than Trae is. Sure, give me Devin Booker but otherwise, naw. I really want Ant Man. 

[Packfill]

While I think this is a great win I do not view any individual game as evidence of any specific long-term trend.

In saying that, I note that with or without Trae this team is mid - and has been for a few seasons now (basically since they lost in the ECF finals).  

I am hoping DJM's opportunity to play point in Trae's absence and the spike in his numbers help inflate his trade value so the team can move him in the off-season for a better long term fit next to Trae.  I still think that trade has to happen to move this team to the next level.  I wish I felt differently.

[Spud2nique]

Just finished it. Wow . First off, Hunter did spend time in the gym and injected ice through his veins apparently. Shout out to Clint with that huge board and kick out.

Bogi started it with 4:08 left in the 2nd with a bucket that turned the tides a bit heading into the half.

Bruno fought and that’s what he always does. He plays hard and I dig that a lot. 
 

Vit was on one for a while he shrugged the shoulders like MJ it! He’s working on his weaknesses the outside shot and it’s showing.

Last but not least 2 HUGE defensive stands by Wes. Another fighter and he hit a couple huge 3’s as well.

 

GO HAWKS!!!

 

ps Nobody ever say Pritchard don’t care about the ATL he fed the crowd chicken !!!  

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Hawks University is back. I always felt Hawks University slightly died when Quin went to Utah but it's finally back again

This is what I'm most excited about.  Still crossing my fingers Mo can be serviceable next year.  AJ too.

35 minutes ago, AHF said:

He is taking two more shots per game than Trae (21 to 19) and scoring one less point so he isn't quite there.  You would expect Trae to be averaging roughly 29 PPG if given the same 21 FGA/gm that DJM is taking to average 25.5.  That checks out given that Trae averaged 29.6  on 20.8 FGA/gm and 28.4 on 20.3 FGA/gm in the two seasons where he took that close to that many shots.  

I suppose you could say that 25.5 and 29 are similar, though, in which case then I would agree with you using your definition even if I wouldn't go so far as to call those similar.

Not really apples to apples.  Trae went out exactly when they started letting dudes play defense and not calling everything a foul.  His whistle would have dried up significantly, probably having a big impact on his production and efficiency scoring.

[Atlantaholic]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Yeah, if we could get Devin Booker back, it would make sense. It's the Devin Vassell and picks that make me like hell naw. Trash! 

Whereas for Murray, I am more open to lesser player that fits and picks but I am not interested in that idea for Trae. 

It all depends on the return, but yea if it's Booker that could work. If a Trae package could net us Towns I would think about it too. Obviously not a realistic scenario for specific T-Wolves reasons but on the level of value I think that's around the return that we could realistically get back from Trae, whereas Murray it seems extremely unlikely we could ever net a perennial All-Star type guy for. But I agree there too, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a Towns type return for me to trade Murray.  You can sorround Trae with solid defenders and shooters and have it work, we saw it during the ECF run and Denver is doing it with Jokic, and not saying Trae is on Jokic's level, but it's an example of a system that runs through one primary play-maker that is sorrounded by elite role-players that play defense.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

It all depends on the return, but yea if it's Booker that could work. If a Trae package could net us Towns I would think about it too. Obviously not a realistic scenario for specific T-Wolves reasons but on the level of value I think that's around the return that we could realistically get back from Trae, whereas Murray it seems extremely unlikely we could ever net a perennial All-Star type guy for. But I agree there too, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a Towns type return for me to trade Murray.  You can sorround Trae with solid defenders and shooters and have it work, we saw it during the ECF run and Denver is doing it with Jokic, and not saying Trae is on Jokic's level, but it's an example of a system that runs through one primary play-maker that is sorrounded by elite role-players that play defense.

KAT value is best with Trae. Murray PnR play is extremely ball handler centric. His lack of defense also becomes an issue because the offense isn't through the roof with Murray unlike it would be with Trae. 

[RedDawg#8]

Last I checked, Trae wants to be a Hawk for life, and DJM's camp was open to/borderline asking for a change of scenery.

If we have to move one (we don't) lets start the conversation there, as in, who actually wants to be here and is invested in this franchise/fanbase.

We can look at the financials and return later.

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

KAT value is best with Trae. Murray PnR play is extremely ball handler centric. His lack of defense also becomes an issue because the offense isn't through the roof with Murray unlike it would be with Trae. 

That's a good point, and yea, I'm not saying Towns would be the return I pull the trigger on. Just that general caliber of player, and either in the frontcourt at SG.