Official Playoff Game Thread: Hawks at heat -- GAME 2

[kg01]

Just now, Final_quest said:

That's the exact result.  The discussion goes straight into the toilet.  There's a lot of actual reasons why Trae and the Hawks are having difficulty in this series.  But since I told my friends Trae is a star and he embarrassed me, we have to listen to a toddler tantrum.  

Haha, I was talking ca$h sh*t to my heat-fan brother in law before the series.  Suffice to say, those texts did not age well and the family reunion may or may not devolve into a battle royale.

But I've said too much. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

The Hawks are a play in tournament 9th seed team. It's not the referees.

If it were the Hawks being physical and the refs not saying anything would you feel the same way?

How many passes do you give Miami?  I mean HM... you have seen the video here.  Live and in Color.  Missed calls.  Bad Calls.  Illegal play...

and you got the nerve to say "it's not the referees?  What are you some prison league fan??

If they beat us and all things were equal, I would agree with you.  But they are beating us and the refs are still calling touch fouls for Jimmy and allowing us to be ragdolled out there.   That's not equal.  The refs are not calling the game equal.

From PJ Tuckers Moving screen.  Lowry's shananigans.  Dedmon's camping in the lane.  and the untouchableness of Jimmy Butler...

Then on our side.. the absolute mugging of Trae and Hunter or whoever else would step up and score. 

You got to be kidding me HM.

 

[Final_quest]

18 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Haha, I was talking ca$h sh*t to my heat-fan brother in law before the series.  Suffice to say, those texts did not age well and the family reunion may or may not devolve into a battle royale.

But I've said too much. 

There is one series every year where a team looks dead in the water and suddenly figures out how to beat the other team.  Hoping that's our story this year.  

[thecampster]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If it were the Hawks being physical and the refs not saying anything would you feel the same way?

How many passes do you give Miami?  I mean HM... you have seen the video here.  Live and in Color.  Missed calls.  Bad Calls.  Illegal play...

and you got the nerve to say "it's not the referees?  What are you some prison league fan??

If they beat us and all things were equal, I would agree with you.  But they are beating us and the refs are still calling touch fouls for Jimmy and allowing us to be ragdolled out there.   That's not equal.  The refs are not calling the game equal.

From PJ Tuckers Moving screen.  Lowry's shananigans.  Dedmon's camping in the lane.  and the untouchableness of Jimmy Butler...

Then on our side.. the absolute mugging of Trae and Hunter or whoever else would step up and score. 

You got to be kidding me HM.

 

The hold on the OO lob in the second half really bothered me for some reason.  Went as a Trae turnover but again, OO couldn't jump and move to the ball. He was held.

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The hold on the OO lob in the second half really bothered me for some reason.  Went as a Trae turnover but again, OO couldn't jump and move to the ball. He was held.

What you've uncovered is the reason people can't just rely on numbers to tell them what happened in a game.

[macdaddy]

We aren't going to beat anyone with so little from kev/gallo/hunter.   We've gottten so used to Kev and Hunter being just ok that people are saying they played well.   Really?  Hunter was average and Kev played 30 minutes and made 3 baskets, no free throws.  

[macdaddy]

That said, the Heat are unwatchable and I hope philly beats them down.  Watching the Heat really reminds you what a joke of a league this really is.  

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

This is like christmas for some of you.

Mainly the ones who were are absent after wins.

Winner winner chicken dinner.  

 

[REHawksFan]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

What you've uncovered is the reason people can't just rely on numbers to tell them what happened in a game.

If they don't watch the game how else will they know what happened?  

[Atlantaholic]

8 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

Why can't Delon get more minutes? He has a huge impact every time he's on the floor but somehow his minutes are limited so Huerter can get blown by and be forced to foul over and over? What happened to Nate's supposed defensive identity? Huerter had 5 fouls down the stretch so he couldnt body up on D. Wright had 2 steals and 0 fouls. 

Dude was +8 in 29 minutes and he had the best +- of anyone who played >20 mins in the last game too. Please please Nate give Delon starters minutes and see what happens. 

Ok, ya I agree with that. 

I understand the thinking of putting Huerter there down the stretch with Trae (having a floor spacer) but if Huerter isn't making the shots just roll with Delon.

[Diesel]

What we learned...

The one thing we learned that I hope sticks and we work on is that Refs calling it tight for Jimmy leads to Hawks players playing less aggressively on Jimmy.... leads to Jimmy scoring big. 

 With 4 minutes or so left in the first half..

Bogi, Kev, and Hunter all had 4 fouls. 

That's 12 fouls in 20 minutes.   Let's do the math.. .that would be a trajectory of all three fouling out by 40 minute mark of the game. 

There were 50 fouls total for the game.   That means that our 2nd half we committed less fouls.   Hunter Kev and Bogi all ended up with 5 fouls.   Jimmy shot 12 FTs...  The hawks shot 14 FTs...  Is the aggression that much different?

The haters say.. Don't talk about fouls... the refs wasn't the reason why we lost?

They were not the sole reason... but they were a very strong contributor.

They Let Miami get away with murder...

They control our aggression with the quick whistle.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how two fouls called on Miami when we were in the very act of shooting were called non-Shooting fouls?

I don't know what we can do about this lopsidedness in reffing the game.   Maybe nothing.   But it's a bad look when Jimmy can jump into whoever and get a foul...

 

[shakes]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What we learned...

The one thing we learned that I hope sticks and we work on is that Refs calling it tight for Jimmy leads to Hawks players playing less aggressively on Jimmy.... leads to Jimmy scoring big. 

 With 4 minutes or so left in the first half..

Bogi, Kev, and Hunter all had 4 fouls. 

That's 12 fouls in 20 minutes.   Let's do the math.. .that would be a trajectory of all three fouling out by 40 minute mark of the game. 

There were 50 fouls total for the game.   That means that our 2nd half we committed less fouls.   Hunter Kev and Bogi all ended up with 5 fouls.   Jimmy shot 12 FTs...  The hawks shot 14 FTs...  Is the aggression that much different?

The haters say.. Don't talk about fouls... the refs wasn't the reason why we lost?

They were not the sole reason... but they were a very strong contributor.

They Let Miami get away with murder...

They control our aggression with the quick whistle.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how two fouls called on Miami when we were in the very act of shooting were called non-Shooting fouls?

I don't know what we can do about this lopsidedness in reffing the game.   Maybe nothing.   But it's a bad look when Jimmy can jump into whoever and get a foul...

 

you lose some credibility when you bring up Bogi.   He earned every foul he was called for and most of them are intentional.  hard to say a guy is getting screwed by the refs when he is actively seeking out intentional fouls all game.  That combined with him being the single worst defensive player in the NBA and it's a recipe for a foul-o-rama,

 

 

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, shakes said:

you lose some credibility when you bring up Bogi.   He earned every foul he was called for and most of them are intentional.  hard to say a guy is getting screwed by the refs when he is actively seeking out intentional fouls all game.  That combined with him being the single worst defensive player in the NBA and it's a recipe for a foul-o-rama,

 

 

I hate the Bogi take fouls.  Bogi did get a foul intentionally at the end of the game.  However, 2 of his fouls in the first half were huh??

I didn't know what to make of Vincent taking the ball from Bogi mid dribble.  It felt like a foul... but if Bogi would have flashed the shiver, he would have been called for the OF like Trae was.

 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

What you've uncovered is the reason people can't just rely on numbers to tell them what happened in a game.

The other foul that bothered me a good bit was where Vincent ran down Trae, bumped him, Trae pushed him off with the right arm and got called for an offensive foul.  The initial contact was made by the defensive player. At worst its a double foul, but that was clearly a foul on Vincent and was hard to watch. If Vincent doesn't veer into him, Trae can't push off. Its full body contact he created at an angle.

 

The egregious stuff like Lowry's pursuit of Hunter goes without saying but those 2 Heat favored calls pretty much sealed the game.

[hylndr11]

Let's just all assume all this reffing goes our way in ATL .  Hopefully even the series and get cap back 

 

[kg01]

47 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The other foul that bothered me a good bit was where Vincent ran down Trae, bumped him, Trae pushed him off with the right arm and got called for an offensive foul.  The initial contact was made by the defensive player. At worst its a double foul, but that was clearly a foul on Vincent and was hard to watch. If Vincent doesn't veer into him, Trae can't push off. Its full body contact he created at an angle.

The egregious stuff like Lowry's pursuit of Hunter goes without saying but those 2 Heat favored calls pretty much sealed the game.

The funny part is folks will say stuff like, "those 2 fouls aren't why we lost the game", and they're right.  However, it illustrates the 'tone' of the game.  Trae did nothing wrong on that play but got a foul and a T on top of it.  So, the refs doubled down on their mistake.  Who knows how the game would've unfolded from that point had they made the right call.

Basically rewarding a guy for running into the ballhandler impacts the way everyone "guards".

I have no idea why that's considered 'right' in peoples' eyes.

[thecampster]

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The funny part is folks will say stuff like, "those 2 fouls aren't why we lost the game", and they're right.  However, it illustrates the 'tone' of the game.  Trae did nothing wrong on that play but got a foul and a T on top of it.  So, the refs doubled down on their mistake.  Who knows how the game would've unfolded from that point had they made the right call.

Basically rewarding a guy for running into the ballhandler impacts the way everyone "guards".

I have no idea why that's considered 'right' in peoples' eyes.

When compared to the Hunter running under the basket hands up trying to get out of Jimmy's way and Jimmy makes brush contact is a foul. It isn't about is it a foul or not. If Hunter's is a foul, Vincent's is a hard foul. The real problem in the game last night was in the consistent 2 way whistle.  If I had a wish, it would be for fans in the ATL to show up with signs all over the arena or to wear shirts that said, "Call the game fair!".  Just all over the arena, signs and shirts.

Edited April 20, 2022 by thecampster

[AHF]

Just now, thecampster said:

When compared to the Hunter running under the basket hands up trying to get out of Jimmy's way and Jimmy makes brush contact is a foul. It isn't about is it a foul or not. If Hunter's is a foul, Vincent's is a hard foul. The real problem in the game last night was in the consistent 2 way whistle.  If I had a wish, it would be fore fans in the ATL to show up with signs all over the arena or to wear shirts that said, "Call the game fair!".  Just all over the arena, signs and shirts.

The tone of the game completely changes if the game is just called fair.  A foul is a foul.  Call it.

But the number of absolute BS plays that are getting the highlight treatment on twitter is an embarrassment for the league.  At least they should be embarrassed.  If I was in charge of managing the refs, I'd sure as hell be sitting them down with highlights of Lowry in particular and tell these guys to wake the **** up and take control of the game before someone gets hurt.

[thecampster]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

When compared to the Hunter running under the basket hands up trying to get out of Jimmy's way and Jimmy makes brush contact is a foul. It isn't about is it a foul or not. If Hunter's is a foul, Vincent's is a hard foul. The real problem in the game last night was in the consistent 2 way whistle.  If I had a wish, it would be for fans in the ATL to show up with signs all over the arena or to wear shirts that said, "Call the game fair!".  Just all over the arena, signs and shirts.

Here...if you wanna push the analytics and get it seen.  

 

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, thecampster said:

When compared to the Hunter running under the basket hands up trying to get out of Jimmy's way and Jimmy makes brush contact is a foul. It isn't about is it a foul or not. If Hunter's is a foul, Vincent's is a hard foul. The real problem in the game last night was in the consistent 2 way whistle.  If I had a wish, it would be for fans in the ATL to show up with signs all over the arena or to wear shirts that said, "Call the game fair!".  Just all over the arena, signs and shirts.

 

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

The tone of the game completely changes if the game is just called fair.  A foul is a foul.  Call it.

But the number of absolute BS plays that are getting the highlight treatment on twitter is an embarrassment for the league.  At least they should be embarrassed.  If I was in charge of managing the refs, I'd sure as hell be sitting them down with highlights of Lowry in particular and tell these guys to wake the **** up and take control of the game before someone gets hurt.

The nuance that will be missed in all this is the fact that there is a gargantuan chasm of difference between 'complaining about not getting calls' and 'complaining that the game is being called improperly'.

One can objectively be dismissed as homerism.  Maybe.

The other is indeed an issue with the integrity of the game.

It seems clear we're seeing the latter.

Edited April 20, 2022 by kg01