Official Game Thread: Hawks at Cavaliers

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Trae was food defensively. It was an awful performance defensively from him, John, and Kevin. 

Offensively, it was rough. The NY and ORL game was fun.

Trae also inflicted as much damage on their defense, as the defense did on him.

The difference is that Sexton ( who went for 23 pts - 6 asst ) had major help around him

• Thompson: 27 pts - 11 rebs off the bench
• Nance Jr:  25 pts - 12 rebs
• Porter Jr:  18 pts on 7 - 11 shooting

Meanwhile, Collins had 23 pts - 4 rebs ( which is sad ).  Huerter went for 11 pts on 4 - 12 shooting.   Poor Cam was ( -28 ) tonight, despite scoring 16 pts.

I wonder how many 2nd chance points the Cavs had tonight off of their 17 offensive rebounds?  People say that defensive rebounding isn't important, but it really is.  That's the last part of defense.  Too many times, the Hawks fail to put a body on somebody as the shot is going up, and someone waltzes right in and gets the offensive rebound and scores.

 

[Peoriabird]

I'm beginning to think that our defense suffers from Dan Quinn disease.  They were saying the same things about the Falcon's personnel until a line backers coach took over the defense in the 2nd half of the season

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 minutes ago, enrique said:

Okay. Just got home from work. Can’t believe we just got out rebounded by 20 boards. All other stats are even. Except the one stat we need more of...points!!!!

how did dedmon and Collins only grab a few boards. 
 

 

Kobe said it best

 

[KB21]

Hunter will be fine.  He should be behind a veteran while he learns the ropes, but he’s going to be a good player.  

This team desperately needs a guy from the Bud tree as head coach.

[Watchman]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Sexton and Garland shot under 42% from the field and they were worse from three. Nance, Porter, Thompson, and Drummond absolutely destroyed us on the offensive end.

Our nightly opponent players career/season high games.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Trae also inflicted as much damage on their defense, as the defense did on him.

The difference is that Sexton ( who went for 23 pts - 6 asst ) had major help around him

• Thompson: 27 pts - 11 rebs off the bench
• Nance Jr:  25 pts - 12 rebs
• Porter Jr:  18 pts on 7 - 11 shooting

Meanwhile, Collins had 23 pts - 4 rebs ( which is sad ).  Huerter went for 11 pts on 4 - 12 shooting.   Poor Cam was ( -26 ) tonight, despite scoring 16 pts.

I wonder how many 2nd chance points the Cavs had tonight off of their 17 offensive rebounds?  People say that defensive rebounding isn't important, but it really is.  That's the last part of defense.  Too many times, the Hawks fail to put a body on somebody as the shot is going up, and someone waltzes right in and gets the offensive rebound and scores.

 

I felt the guards for the most part got what they wanted, they really made us pay on turnovers as well. This felt like New York and Orlando but like Orlando, Cleveland made us pay and we were cold v. Cleveland in the 1st half. 35% from the field.

[Cwell]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm beginning to think that our defense suffers from Dan Quinn disease.  They were saying the same things about the Falcon's personnel until a line backers coach took over the defense in the 2nd half of the season

I honestly was thinking about Quinn earlier too. From the standpoint of an assistant coach being dubbed as a defensive guy when in reality he was just fortunate to be coaching some very talented defensive players. And when they don't have that superior talent they're effing clueless

[Buzzard]

12 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

I'm also pretty skeptical about Hunter. Trae/Reddish/Collins/Capella could work though... we'll see soon enough; hopefully.

I think Huerter is going to be a great 6th man. Give him 2 more years and some more weight. He will be .390 or better shooter from three for his career. Maybe not the complete game Gionobili had but 14, 4, and 4 is easily foreseeable coming off the bench.

Hunter needs more time but Otto Porter Jr. does interest me this coming free agent period.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

22 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

If you ignore defense you might think that.

I don't think Brad Daugherty ignores defense but keep trying.

[Buzzard]

I guess LP can hang his hat on not giving up 30 in the 4th. They only got 29.

[JTB]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

On one end of the court. The issue is defensively. Its gonna be hard to start Trae and John. With Trae, it feels like we gotta go full Sixers- Iverson.

Yeah can’t lie it does feel that way ....but Before we jump to that I would like to see Cam, Hunter,Capela in the starting lineup and after some chemistry is built with a starters group in Trae, Cam, Hunter, Collins, Capela.....I believe we will see a much better defensive stand by the team.

Unlike Trae , JC could be good defensively one day. He’s not a long big man but hell hes tall and lengthy enough to be a better defender (at least avg).

i don’t want to give up Collins before finding out if he can be a avg defender or not. 
 

Taking huerter out of the lineup and adding cam helps the defense a bit from worrying about covering 3 guys to only 2. Then it could provide a boost in morale! Cam , Hunter, Capela all take extreme pride in playing defense and that’s not an understatement 

[NBASupes]

Just now, JTB said:

Yeah can’t lie it does feel that way ....but Before we jump to that I would like to see Cam, Hunter,Capela in the starting lineup and after some chemistry is built with a starters group in Trae, Cam, Hunter, Collins, Capela.....I believe we will see a much better defensive stand by the team.

Unlike Trae , JC could be good defensively one day. He’s not a long big man but hell hes tall and lengthy enough to be a better defender (at least avg).

i don’t want to give up Collins before finding out if he can be a avg defender or not. 
 

Taking huerter out of the lineup and adding cam helps the defense a bit from worrying about covering 3 guys to only 2. Then it could provide a boost in morale! Cam , Hunter, Capela all take extreme pride in playing defense and that’s not an understatement 

I would love to get Jon Issac for John Collins but yeah, let's give this time and Capela 

[macdaddy]

We do need another wing.  Kev, Cam, Hunter isn't a good enough rotation.

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I think Huerter is going to be a great 6th man. Give him 2 more years and some more weight. He will be .390 or better shooter from three for his career. Maybe not the complete game Gionobili had but 14, 4, and 4 is easily foreseeable coming off the bench.

Hunter needs more time but Otto Porter Jr. does interest me this coming free agent period.

I know TS won't do it but I see why you are suggesting this. I just think Hunter will be more ready in year 2.

[Watchman]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

Yeah can’t lie it does feel that way ....but Before we jump to that I would like to see Cam, Hunter,Capela in the starting lineup and after some chemistry is built with a starters group in Trae, Cam, Hunter, Collins, Capela.....I believe we will see a much better defensive stand by the team.

Unlike Trae , JC could be good defensively one day. He’s not a long big man but hell hes tall and lengthy enough to be a better defender (at least avg).

i don’t want to give up Collins before finding out if he can be a avg defender or not. 
 

Taking huerter out of the lineup and adding cam helps the defense a bit from worrying about covering 3 guys to only 2. Then it could provide a boost in morale! Cam , Hunter, Capela all take extreme pride in playing defense and that’s not an understatement 

True, but then there are no defenders on the second string other than Dedmon.

[Plainview1981]

13 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I don't think Brad Daugherty ignores defense but keep trying.

Obviously he does or he wouldn’t think the way he does.

Collins is never going to be the core piece to a winning team.

He is only points and rebounds. He doesn’t make his teammates  better to any real degree. 

Tonight was just another example as to why this core isn’t going to translate to success.

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Plainview1981

[JTB]

16 minutes ago, Cwell said:

I honestly was thinking about Quinn earlier too. From the standpoint of an assistant coach being dubbed as a defensive guy when in reality he was just fortunate to be coaching some very talented defensive players. And when they don't have that superior talent they're effing clueless

So what you’re saying is LP was riding on the coat tails Of the players in philly as hard as Quinn was with Kyle Shanahan during the SB run 

 

 

[Cwell]

6 minutes ago, JTB said:

So what you’re saying is LP was riding on the coat tails Of the players in philly as hard as Quinn was with Kyle Shanahan during the SB run 

 

 

No how Quinn was able to run a simple ass cover 3 scheme with Seattle and the Legion of Boom, and how it doesn't work without a bunch of established veteran pro bowlers

[bleachkit]

46 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

On one end of the court. The issue is defensively. Its gonna be hard to start Trae and John. With Trae, it feels like we gotta go full Sixers- Iverson.

No. It was amazing AI even made it to a finals. Larry Brown deserves props for that team. But that's not a good model to follow. I'll take Nash era sun's over that any day.

[enrique]

44 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's why it's best not to think and do the research

https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-news-gregg-popovich-thinks-the-plus-minus-rating-is-a-hoax/

Plus Minus rating is one of the worst there is. It is best for looking within the team to see how players stack up against the overall outcome of the game. In other words, if we lose by 25 and Trae is -10, then that is actually not a horrific result. If we win by 20, and Trae is a net zero, then his game was awful.

I have pulled relative plus/minus for the season on most teams (not updated in the last 5-6 games). The results are helpful.

Using it to compare player A to player B on different teams is worthless IMO. It is more an indicator of how good the overall team is.